Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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23-06-2016, 06:37 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 06:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There you go again repeating the same false claim you were called out on previously. Philo was not in Jerusalem with 5-6 years within Jesus's death, at least there's nothing in our available sources regarding Philo that supports your claim that he was.

So I'm calling you out on this again, either acknowledge you were mistaken in this claim of yours, or cite the portion of Philo's writing that supports him being in Jerusalem within that 4-5 year range of Jesus's death.

Oh good god, not THAT ! Oh horrors. Why .... he may just have to leave town !!
Not to worry. He's just "polluted". That's got to be it.

You still have never ONCE taken on ONE of the actual arguments of Carrier or Price, and dealt with them. All this bullshit from you is attempted deflection and obfuscation. You have no sources. You have no evidence. There are no "sources". You worship a figment of your imagination.

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23-06-2016, 06:43 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 06:37 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 06:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There you go again repeating the same false claim you were called out on previously. Philo was not in Jerusalem with 5-6 years within Jesus's death, at least there's nothing in our available sources regarding Philo that supports your claim that he was.

So I'm calling you out on this again, either acknowledge you were mistaken in this claim of yours, or cite the portion of Philo's writing that supports him being in Jerusalem within that 4-5 year range of Jesus's death.

Oh good god, not THAT ! Oh horrors. Why .... he may just have to leave town !!
Not to worry. He's just "polluted". That's got to be it.

You still have never ONCE taken on ONE of the actual arguments of Carrier or Price, and dealt with them. All this bullshit from you is attempted deflection and obfuscation. You have no sources. You have no evidence. There are no "sources". You worship a figment of your imagination.

Maybe he'd believe Philo if a hallucinating person wrote about him visiting Jersalem during a bad trip?

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23-06-2016, 06:45 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 06:37 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 06:18 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There you go lie number 3.

Here's the facts of what I said, in the original post you quoted of mine:

"Paul provides a first hand account of meeting his disciples and brothers. "

I don't know much more clearer it can be as to what I was referring to as a first hand account.

Not only are you a liar, but you're also a coward who can't even take accountability for your error. You blame me for your distortions. Clearly grasshopper understood what I was referring to, and the portion of my post I just quoted made it clear as day what I was referring to.

But it wasn't your fault right? It was mine for not being clearer as to what I was referring to as a first hand account.







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You left out the entire first paragraph of what you said:
"Atheists complain about not having first-hand accounts, yet when first hand accounts are offered, they question whether or not the individual was lying. It's a shell game right?"

And you still don't understand the concept between what is a lie and what is (at best) a mistake from reading your bullshit.

Also, you should read the thread instead of posting bullshit, another reply to grasshopper from me:

"It wasn't an attempt at a false accusation, it was literally a question being asked of him to clarify his position. Why? Because he flips back and forth between Paul and the Gospels constantly. I could have (and maybe should have) phrased the question as "Now you're saying that Paul's accounts and/or the gospels are first-hand accounts?" Because with tomato, you never know what he actually believes.

And in short, Tomato still hasn't shown me my "lies?" Drinking Beverage "


Clearly you are claiming Paul's accounts are first-hand accounts. But his claim is corroborated by what exactly? His word?

And just to clarify, are any of the gospels or any part of them first-hand accounts?

(Go on, make a liar out of me Evil_monster )


Your dishonesty is quite blatant. It was clear what I was referring to as a first hand-account, I explicitly stated in the post what I was referring to. Not to mention my response was to sitarsky in regards to Paul's encounter with the disciples and James.

This was clearly understood by Grasshopper, and has been pointed out to you multiple times already within this thread, and yet you continue on with it. You accuse me of not being clear, can't even take accountability for the bullshit accusations you've peddled regarding this in several post already.

So yes, the wiggle room in which you were just carelessly mistaken has evaporated, and you dishonesty has become front and center, as well as you lack of accountability. I hope these aren't the sort of values you instill in your son.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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23-06-2016, 06:48 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 06:37 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 06:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There you go again repeating the same false claim you were called out on previously. Philo was not in Jerusalem with 5-6 years within Jesus's death, at least there's nothing in our available sources regarding Philo that supports your claim that he was.

So I'm calling you out on this again, either acknowledge you were mistaken in this claim of yours, or cite the portion of Philo's writing that supports him being in Jerusalem within that 4-5 year range of Jesus's death.

Oh good god, not THAT ! Oh horrors. Why .... he may just have to leave town !!
Not to worry. He's just "polluted". That's got to be it.

You still have never ONCE taken on ONE of the actual arguments of Carrier or Price, and dealt with them. All this bullshit from you is attempted deflection and obfuscation. You have no sources. You have no evidence. There are no "sources". You worship a figment of your imagination.


Lol, says the guys appealing to Carrier and Price for the sake of deflection and obfuscation of having to take accountability for passing along false statements.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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23-06-2016, 06:51 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 06:45 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 06:37 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You left out the entire first paragraph of what you said:
"Atheists complain about not having first-hand accounts, yet when first hand accounts are offered, they question whether or not the individual was lying. It's a shell game right?"

And you still don't understand the concept between what is a lie and what is (at best) a mistake from reading your bullshit.

Also, you should read the thread instead of posting bullshit, another reply to grasshopper from me:

"It wasn't an attempt at a false accusation, it was literally a question being asked of him to clarify his position. Why? Because he flips back and forth between Paul and the Gospels constantly. I could have (and maybe should have) phrased the question as "Now you're saying that Paul's accounts and/or the gospels are first-hand accounts?" Because with tomato, you never know what he actually believes.

And in short, Tomato still hasn't shown me my "lies?" Drinking Beverage "


Clearly you are claiming Paul's accounts are first-hand accounts. But his claim is corroborated by what exactly? His word?

And just to clarify, are any of the gospels or any part of them first-hand accounts?

(Go on, make a liar out of me Evil_monster )


Your dishonesty is quite blatant. It was clear what I was referring to as a first hand-account, I explicitly stated in the post what I was referring to. Not to mention my response was to sitarsky in regards to Paul's encounter with the disciples and James.

This was clearly understood by Grasshopper, and has been pointed out to you multiple times already within this thread, and yet you continue on with it. You accuse me of not being clear, can't even take accountability for the bullshit accusations you've peddled regarding this in several post already.

So yes, the wiggle room in which you were just carelessly mistaken has evaporated, and you dishonesty has become front and center, as well as you lack of accountability. I hope these aren't the sort of values you instill in your son.


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Two arguments.
Take on TWO arguments.
One of Carrier's, one of Price's.
Discuss them in DETAIL.
Why are they wrong. What are the unbiased sources ?

Or STFU, Tommuy Boy.
Do it NOW.
Or STFU.

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23-06-2016, 06:52 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 06:45 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 06:37 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You left out the entire first paragraph of what you said:
"Atheists complain about not having first-hand accounts, yet when first hand accounts are offered, they question whether or not the individual was lying. It's a shell game right?"

And you still don't understand the concept between what is a lie and what is (at best) a mistake from reading your bullshit.

Also, you should read the thread instead of posting bullshit, another reply to grasshopper from me:

"It wasn't an attempt at a false accusation, it was literally a question being asked of him to clarify his position. Why? Because he flips back and forth between Paul and the Gospels constantly. I could have (and maybe should have) phrased the question as "Now you're saying that Paul's accounts and/or the gospels are first-hand accounts?" Because with tomato, you never know what he actually believes.

And in short, Tomato still hasn't shown me my "lies?" Drinking Beverage "


Clearly you are claiming Paul's accounts are first-hand accounts. But his claim is corroborated by what exactly? His word?

And just to clarify, are any of the gospels or any part of them first-hand accounts?

(Go on, make a liar out of me Evil_monster )


Your dishonesty is quite blatant. It was clear what I was referring to as a first hand-account, I explicitly stated in the post what I was referring to. Not to mention my response was to sitarsky in regards to Paul's encounter with the disciples and James.

This was clearly understood by Grasshopper, and has been pointed out to you multiple times already within this thread, and yet you continue on with it. You accuse me of not being clear, can't even take accountability for the bullshit accusations you've peddled regarding this in several post already.

So yes, the wiggle room in which you were just carelessly mistaken has evaporated, and you dishonesty has become front and center, as well as you lack of accountability. I hope these aren't the sort of values you instill in your son.


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You're quite pathetic in your deflections. I see you didn't answer any of my questions nor have you actually shown any of my lies. What you have shown is a singular error on my part where I asked a question for clarification that instead of answering, you claimed was a lie. Pretty fucking pathetic Drinking Beverage

What else you got? Answers to my questions? Consider Go on, I dare you to actually engage with the substance of what's being discussed here? Evil_monster


(And if you come across any actual lies from me, "the liar," then you should actually post them. Your blatant attempts at deflecting valid criticisms of your bullshit by projecting them onto others, is intellectually dishonest to the point that you are now bordering on lying. And I'd cal you a liar in this specific case, except I think you might actually be ignorant enough to not know what a lie or a liar is. Better look those up Thumbsup )

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23-06-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 06:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 06:37 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh good god, not THAT ! Oh horrors. Why .... he may just have to leave town !!
Not to worry. He's just "polluted". That's got to be it.

You still have never ONCE taken on ONE of the actual arguments of Carrier or Price, and dealt with them. All this bullshit from you is attempted deflection and obfuscation. You have no sources. You have no evidence. There are no "sources". You worship a figment of your imagination.


Lol, says the guys appealing to Carrier and Price for the sake of deflection and obfuscation of having to take accountability for passing along false statements.


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I already said I made a mistake. Everyone here can see you are unable to defend your position, and are totally incompetent to even begin to defend it. All you can do is continue to throw up smoke screens.

Jesus.
Prove he existed, you fucking troll. NOW.

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23-06-2016, 07:20 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 02:56 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Yes I think he was either lying or maybe the people he spoke to were lying, what does Paul say about Jesus?

Ah so you believe Paul was more likely lying than telling the truth about meeting the disciples and James. Perhaps to bolster his credibility? In the same passage regarding his encounter with James and Peter, he stated he did not see any of the other disciples that day. Perhaps to downplay any suspicions.

If he was lying about ever meeting them, then I guess he was also lying about his disputes with them regarding the Gentiles and the Jewish ritual laws? I would think if he was lying about all this to bolster his credibility, he would have had them agreeing with him, rather than having a contentious dispute with them regarding this.

Here's the other question, if Paul was lying about meeting his disciples and brother, it goes without saying that this would mean he knew of Jesus having disciples with those particular names, and a brother named James. Or maybe you think he invented a brother and disciples himself, and then claimed to meet them?

Quote:Once again where are the historical accounts of Jesus outside of the Bible, outside of scripture and the gospels?

You have Josephus writing of his brother's death, Tacitus mentioning his death at the hands of Pilate, and variety of NT writings from multiple writers, as well as four Greco-Roman biographies of his life, that relied on multiple earlier sources themselves.


Quote:If you don't have any than it's pretty easy to assume any mythical magical mumbo jumbo is just that.

If you think it's pretty easy to believe in the mother of all conspiracy theories, in the Jesus that didn't exist, and no one was the wiser until some resourceful atheists on the internet figured it out. That not only did the early Christians tried to sell a failed messiah claimant, who died a humiliating death at the hands of the Romans, as the Jewish Messiah,but one that didn't exist at all. Then I have a tinfoil hat with your name on it.

Quote:The main thing is, Paul says Jesus was crucified and resurrected, he wasn't there but no one who was there thought to write this shit down?

Yes, they should have pulled their smartphones out and took pictures, and jotted it down on their notepads, because in an oral culture, that's what the primary means of communication was right, writing shit down. Perhaps for the sake of avoiding the criticism of individuals 2000 years after their time.







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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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23-06-2016, 07:23 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 07:05 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 06:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Lol, says the guys appealing to Carrier and Price for the sake of deflection and obfuscation of having to take accountability for passing along false statements.


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I already said I made a mistake.

You did, Goodwithoutgod didn't, and repeated the same nonsense here again. And it was my post calling him out on this, that you earlier replied to.







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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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23-06-2016, 07:35 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 08:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 07:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Seoq, see this thread for a lot of discussion about Josephus's writings and Tomasia's completely dishonest style of apologetics.

Yes, in that thread I chased out a bunch of ridiculous claims by atheists, such as GoodwithoutGod, Rocketsurgeon, Bucky, running them out of town. And I'll do the same here.

Wow. A straight-up, out-and-out lie. Usually you aren't so bold.

You presented your argument. There were points in favor of it and points against it.

You chased out no claims. The conversation died down, as most do, once both sides had made their arguments and productive posting waned.

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