Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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22-07-2016, 08:28 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-07-2016 07:25 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-07-2016 07:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  I said therel is no evidence that it existed at the time required for Jesus to be from there.
All of your evidence shows something existed decades later, and that evidence is not compelling that it was a town.

Yes, I am pointing out the weaknesses and flaws in your argument.

Actually we have evidence that existed much earlier as well, thousands of years earlier in fact.

So you'd have to argue that it disappeared during the time of Jesus, and that it appeared again shortly after the period of Jesus, is that your view? Also not sure how you want to explain the early references to it, in the Gospel writing that date as early as 70CE.

Many scholars believe it disappeared when the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom -- which was certainly before Jesus.
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22-07-2016, 08:29 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(21-07-2016 11:06 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 04:09 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  Another ad hom that avoids my point.


Anything you wrote was already known by me if you gleaned it from scholarly articles, and it still has nothing to do with what I was talking about.


And again you still avoid what i was talking about.

Now how the fuck did I know that was going to happen?

Drinking Beverage

"Your point" is wrong and not in the slightest interesting.

But...if you insist I will discuss it again...I think your "point" was this...

"Therefore, whatever the entire doctrine of the Nazarene was, it most likely died with James as he was the heir apparent to Jesus."

To which I replied, at some length, with an explanation of why this is incorrect. We know what the Nazarenes (and therefore Jesus, if he ever existed, ) believed. This is important, because it's not Christian thought.

Tell me you are not fucking serious?

On the contrary, you do not "know" what the Nazarene beliefs were in their entirety at all. In fact, you cannot even claim to have a working knowledge of the basics. There is simply not enough evidence in existence for you to make that statement and keep a straight face about it.

Putting together a couple of ancient quotes and a a few calculated guesses from others does not constitute knowledge in any form.


Quote:
Quote:"Anything you wrote was already known by me if you gleaned it from scholarly
articles,"

This is just terrible. Academic people, and people with genuine humility, don't talk like this about themselves. There is no "if" about what I wrote. It is there in black and white. It appears that you haven't bothered to read it.

What is terrible here is you think that what you wrote is unique- as if no one else could learn it. Academic people DO know it, and no humility about it is required because it is not that big a deal.

You act as if this Nazarene thing is some kind of super secret that only scholars and yourself can access, when the fact of the fucking matter is that it is known by virtually all scholars in the field, of which you are not among them.

So if YOU can learn it, then it can be learned by anybody for fuck sakes.

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22-07-2016, 08:46 AM (This post was last modified: 22-07-2016 08:50 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-07-2016 08:28 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Many scholars believe it disappeared when the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom -- which was certainly before Jesus.

Exactly how many archaeologist believe that Nazareth didn't exist during the time of Jesus? Deny the variety of archaeological evidence, that indicates it did exists at that time? And how many scholars, composed your "many". Not even mythicist like Carrier deny the existence of Nazareth.

We have references to it in the Gospels dating back as early as 70ce, do you believe it didn't exist at the time?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-07-2016, 08:52 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(21-07-2016 04:37 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  If this is true, then forgive me for my somewhat harsh comments in my previous post to you.

It is. Plus I came in late to the conversation so i'll need to apparently do some reading.

(21-07-2016 06:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I never knew that individuals with dyslexia have a hard time understanding jokes, and sarcasm, like in this regard those with Aspergers. I apologize if my question seemed insulting, I was genuinely curious, as to why something that seemed like obvious sarcasm to me, wasn't for you.

Thanks for being open about it.

No, i'm fluent sarcasm. Must have been my fault for walking into a room with flying bullets. It's often easy to forget there are people on the other side of these screens.

I have no problem answer questions. With out them we would never learn anything. I try not to avoid answering any, even if I heard the same one numerous times. Because each person isn't the same person, and I can't expect the next one to ask the to know my thoughts or the answer.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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22-07-2016, 09:02 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-07-2016 07:25 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-07-2016 07:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  I said therel is no evidence that it existed at the time required for Jesus to be from there.
All of your evidence shows something existed decades later, and that evidence is not compelling that it was a town.

Yes, I am pointing out the weaknesses and flaws in your argument.

Actually we have evidence that existed much earlier as well, thousands of years earlier in fact.

So you'd have to argue that it disappeared during the time of Jesus, and that it appeared again shortly after the period of Jesus, is that your view? Also not sure how you want to explain the early references to it, in the Gospel writing that date as early as 70CE.

Tell us what this evidence is that existed for a TOWN/CITY "thousands of years" earlier. Then prove it was NAMED Nazareth, "thousands of years earlier" .....

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-07-2016, 09:04 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-07-2016 08:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-07-2016 08:28 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Many scholars believe it disappeared when the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom -- which was certainly before Jesus.

Exactly how many archaeologist believe that Nazareth didn't exist during the time of Jesus? Deny the variety of archaeological evidence, that indicates it did exists at that time? And how many scholars, composed your "many". Not even mythicist like Carrier deny the existence of Nazareth.

We have references to it in the Gospels dating back as early as 70ce, do you believe it didn't exist at the time?

I have no idea whether or not it existed "during the time of Jesus", and I am done with that argument. I was just pointing out that many scholars believe it did indeed "disappear" before that time. Who knows when it reappeared? To quote Isaac Newton, "Hypotheses non fingo."
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22-07-2016, 09:07 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-07-2016 09:02 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Tell us what this evidence is that existed for a TOWN/CITY "thousands of years" earlier. Then prove it was NAMED Nazareth, "thousands of years earlier" .....

When was it named Nazareth?

The Gospels themselves indicate the name was Nazareth as early as 70ce.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-07-2016, 09:09 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-07-2016 09:04 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I have no idea whether or not it existed "during the time of Jesus", and I am done with that argument. I was just pointing out that many scholars believe it did indeed "disappear" before that time. Who knows when it reappeared? To quote Isaac Newton, "Hypotheses non fingo."

You said "many" scholars, how many?

How many actual archaeologist believe that Nazareth didn't exist during the time of Jesus?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-07-2016, 09:09 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-07-2016 08:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-07-2016 08:28 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Many scholars believe it disappeared when the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom -- which was certainly before Jesus.

Exactly how many archaeologist believe that Nazareth didn't exist during the time of Jesus? Deny the variety of archaeological evidence, that indicates it did exists at that time? And how many scholars, composed your "many". Not even mythicist like Carrier deny the existence of Nazareth.

We have references to it in the Gospels dating back as early as 70ce, do you believe it didn't exist at the time?

You don't know when the gospels were invented, or edited, or rewritten.
70 CE doesn't cut it. We're asking if there is evidence to support a claim that Jesus was from there, EARLY 1st Century.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-07-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-07-2016 09:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  When was it named Nazareth?

The Gospels themselves indicate the name was Nazareth as early as 70ce.

The gospels are not history, for the thousanth time.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...spels.html

I specifically asked for evidence this "place" was named Nazareth for "thousands of years" as you stated.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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