Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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25-07-2016, 11:06 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(25-07-2016 06:27 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Rocket, Mark, Going and Bucky......you guys need to get a room. Tongue

I tried. Really I did.








Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-07-2016, 02:14 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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26-07-2016, 02:18 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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26-07-2016, 02:46 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2016 02:50 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(25-07-2016 03:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 03:03 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Please try to read what I write.

I did not say it was strange that Jesus had a brother.

I said it was remarkable that Paul only (probably) mentioned this once.

What is strange is that James' epistle says nothing about the resurrection. If your brother was the only human ever to rise from the dead, would you not mention it ?

Jebus had more brothers, BTW :
Jude started his epistle by saying he was "a slave of Jesus Christ, but a brother of James" (Jas 1:1; Jude 1)

Kinky Big Grin

If your brother was the only human ever to rise from the dead, would you not mention it ?

I had a pizza for lunch today. One of those pizzas with the really thin crust. It was yummy because I was hungry. Anyway, I walked home after work. I crossed the street. I got home. I put some washing on. My neighbour popped in. His brother had just risen from the dead. I put the washing in the drier. I like my drier. Very reliable. Sometimes you still gotta hang the clothes on the line, just to let the fresh air get at them. I really like yellow pegs, but I have some blue ones too. I thought I'd drop you a line. I blew my nose today. How's things with you?
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26-07-2016, 05:48 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(25-07-2016 10:17 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  In neither case am I accusing the archaeologists themselves of anything, but rather the writers of the popularizing articles about what the archaeologists found...

And I'm talking about the words of the Archaeologist who directed the dig, who I've quoted here, who indicated a dwelling was discovered in that region, that dates to the time of Jesus.


Quote:findings which, if you read them directly, are much less definitive about what they've found than is being claimed here (often in the same wording I see in the IAA article). If you can't grasp that the IAA has a vested interest, here, then you're either blind or stupid.

If you're talking about the IAA than you're talking about the archaeologist. And secondly I have no more of a reason to mistrust archaeologist working for the IAA, than I do scientist working in the public sector, for universities, non-profits, etc.

Except for the fact that they're a bunch of Jews, and you can't trust Jews when money is involved.


Quote:So you're either being a sarcastic little bitch, or you're an actual racist.

Either way, I have no more interest in speaking to you. Piss off.

Lighten up. You brought up not trusting Israeli archaeologist, funded by the Israel government, and I brought up not trusting Jews. So we're thunder buddies here.

You also avoided answering the question regarding your belief that Nazareth existed in the first century, and the claim that there is no actual evidence to support its existence at the time. How does that work?




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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2016, 06:38 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(26-07-2016 02:18 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ah. Herein lies the essence of the argument. I know you don't have a proper understanding of first century Judaism or first century Rome (the driving force behind the gospels) when you make statements like this. There was a war going on between ideologies. Your Jeebus was, and is, a fiction, possibly based on Yeshua, a Jewish political insurgent. He was a propaganda tool. You need to understand that. Then the penny will drop and you will "get" the birth of Christianity.

No you suggest there was a deep schism between the writers of the Gospels and the Nazarene sect, that was so severe that these writers tried to downplay Jesus association with the Nazarene, by passing him off as coming from a town called Nazareth, that apparently didn't exist at the time these writings were penned.

I'm accusing of making this up whole-cloth. A drama of your invention.


So I'll ask the question I asked earlier again, please outline for us the idealogical differences between the Nazarene sect, and the views expressed in lets say the writer of Mark. Where do the views of Mark Gospels and the Nazarene's diverge, if these ideological differences were so severed that Mark wanted to remove any association with the Nazarenes in his account.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(25-07-2016 09:19 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Because other things that he mentions only once are pretty ordinary things. Meeting the brother of God incarnate (what Paul believed Jesus to be) is not an ordinary thing, and would seem to be worth more than a single passing mention in one of the letters. If I met God's brother, you couldn't get me to shut up about it. That's why it seems odd that he only mentions it once.

This seems to be more you reading your own tendencies into the text, rather than anything that can be expected from Paul.

The Gospels themselves write of Jesus earthly relationship, but make no particular fuss about it. Paul writes of Jesus having earthly parents, yet doesn't make much of a deal out of this. In fact, Paul speaks of meeting the disciples, the same way he speaks of meeting James, without melting into some fanboy like trance.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2016, 08:12 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(26-07-2016 05:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 10:17 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  In neither case am I accusing the archaeologists themselves of anything, but rather the writers of the popularizing articles about what the archaeologists found...

And I'm talking about the words of the Archaeologist who directed the dig, who I've quoted here, who indicated a dwelling was discovered in that region, that dates to the time of Jesus.


Quote:findings which, if you read them directly, are much less definitive about what they've found than is being claimed here (often in the same wording I see in the IAA article). If you can't grasp that the IAA has a vested interest, here, then you're either blind or stupid.

If you're talking about the IAA than you're talking about the archaeologist. And secondly I have no more of a reason to mistrust archaeologist working for the IAA, than I do scientist working in the public sector, for universities, non-profits, etc.

Except for the fact that they're a bunch of Jews, and you can't trust Jews when money is involved.


Quote:So you're either being a sarcastic little bitch, or you're an actual racist.

Either way, I have no more interest in speaking to you. Piss off.

Lighten up. You brought up not trusting Israeli archaeologist, funded by the Israel government, and I brought up not trusting Jews. So we're thunder buddies here.

You also avoided answering the question regarding your belief that Nazareth existed in the first century, and the claim that there is no actual evidence to support its existence at the time. How does that work?

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No, no, no. All RocketSurgeon ever said was that the organization for which she works has a vested interest in increasing tourism, and that makes perfect sense. This has nothing to do with them being Jews, and he has never said or implied that it did. You are the one who keeps making snarky anti-Semitic comments -- not him.

If you keep going out of your way to be a dick, no-one on this forum is going to bother responding to you at all anymore. And that will be nobody's fault but yours.
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26-07-2016, 08:56 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2016 09:09 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(26-07-2016 08:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  No, no, no. All RocketSurgeon ever said was that the organization for which she works has a vested interest in increasing tourism, and that makes perfect sense. This has nothing to do with them being Jews, and he has never said or implied that it did. You are the one who keeps making snarky anti-Semitic comments -- not him.

And that would be false, Israeli Antiquities Authority, has nothing to do with tourism, or increasing tourism.

"The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA, Hebrew: רשות העתיקות‎‎, Arabic: داﺌرة الآثار‎‎, before 1990, the Israel Department of Antiquities) is an independent Israeli governmental authority responsible for enforcing the 1978 Law of Antiquities. The IAA regulates excavation and conservation, and promotes research. "

"The IAA's organization consists of:[3]

Management
Deputy Director for Archaeology
IAA Regional Offices (Northern Region, Central Region, Jerusalem Region, Southern Region and maritime archaeology Unit)
Excavations and Surveys Department
Artifacts Treatment Department
Conservation Department
National Treasures Department
Information Technology Department
Publications Department
Antiquities Robbery Prevention Unit
Archives Department
library
IAA Internet Sites Unit
Finance Administration
Planning, Coordination and Control Administration
Administrative and Security Services Branch
Staff Officer for Archaeology – Civil Administration of Judea and Samaria"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Ant..._Authority

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-07-2016, 09:16 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(26-07-2016 08:56 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 08:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  No, no, no. All RocketSurgeon ever said was that the organization for which she works has a vested interest in increasing tourism, and that makes perfect sense. This has nothing to do with them being Jews, and he has never said or implied that it did. You are the one who keeps making snarky anti-Semitic comments -- not him.

And that would be false, Israeli Antiquities Authority, has nothing to do with tourism, or increasing tourism.

"The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA, Hebrew: רשות העתיקות‎‎, Arabic: داﺌرة الآثار‎‎, before 1990, the Israel Department of Antiquities) is an independent Israeli governmental authority responsible for enforcing the 1978 Law of Antiquities. The IAA regulates excavation and conservation, and promotes research. "

"The IAA's organization consists of:[3]

Management
Deputy Director for Archaeology
IAA Regional Offices (Northern Region, Central Region, Jerusalem Region, Southern Region and maritime archaeology Unit)
Excavations and Surveys Department
Artifacts Treatment Department
Conservation Department
National Treasures Department
Information Technology Department
Publications Department
Antiquities Robbery Prevention Unit
Archives Department
library
IAA Internet Sites Unit
Finance Administration
Planning, Coordination and Control Administration
Administrative and Security Services Branch
Staff Officer for Archaeology – Civil Administration of Judea and Samaria"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Ant..._Authority

Be that as it may, RocketSurgeon never said anything about their Jewishness, or any stereotypes associated with that. You and only you insisted on diving into that mudpit. If you have a legitimate point here, you might be able to get him to address that point, if you don't go out of your way to be a dick in the process. Or it might already be too late for that. You can't win an argument by being an asshole. It just makes the other person conclude that you're not worth arguing with. Stick to the facts and use a bit of tact, and you might get somewhere.
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