Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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23-06-2016, 08:43 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 07:00 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Judging that I made no claims here for the miracles of Jesus, or his divinity, and have stated that I have no problem with a Jesus who was lunatic, that didn't perform a single miracle, there's not any particular points of yours relevant to address, and are perhaps better reserved for those who actually make and desire to defend such claims.

You have claimed to be a christian. What you state above are not the beliefs of a christian.

The accepted and understood definition of a christian is someone who worships jesus christ as the son of god and the savior of mankind. A christian believes that christ died for the sins of humanity.

If you define being a christian as something else, then it is up to you to define those beliefs.

If you choose to remain vague, then the fault of any misconceptions rests entirely on yourself.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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24-06-2016, 04:15 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-06-2016, 04:29 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-06-2016, 04:46 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 07:04 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  So you don't believe that Jesus Christ was a messiah sent to Earth as God in mortal form to die for our sins?

I don't believe in whatever you likely think it means for Jesus to be the messiah, or God, or divine. And don't have the patience to deal with all the fundie baggage that gets flung in these parts.

Quote:So, when someone says there are no contemporary historical accounts for this person, only third hand accounts written decades after he supposedly died so no way to prove he ever lived...that's totally ok with you? Or do you think Jesus did exist based on these flimsy texts you have been defending?

No, I hold that Jesus did exist, and that either it requires ignorance or delusion to believe otherwise. We have first hand accounts of an individual who met his brother and disciples. We have the writing of Josephus writing of his brother's death, Tacitus writing of him being crucified under Pilate, not to mention the plethora of NT texts from multiple writers, using sources both written and oral earlier than their own writings, how anyone can reasonably infer from all this that Jesus did not exist, is beyond me. It requires some 9/11 truther like thinking. Which wouldn't be surprising really, since the alternative to Jesus not existing would be the mother of all conspiracy theories.






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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-06-2016, 04:56 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(23-06-2016 08:43 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 07:00 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Judging that I made no claims here for the miracles of Jesus, or his divinity, and have stated that I have no problem with a Jesus who was lunatic, that didn't perform a single miracle, there's not any particular points of yours relevant to address, and are perhaps better reserved for those who actually make and desire to defend such claims.

You have claimed to be a christian. What you state above are not the beliefs of a christian.

The accepted and understood definition of a christian is someone who worships jesus christ as the son of god and the savior of mankind. A christian believes that christ died for the sins of humanity.

If you define being a christian as something else, then it is up to you to define those beliefs.

If you choose to remain vague, then the fault of any misconceptions rests entirely on yourself.

Duly noted, I'll discuss your criteria for what it means to be a Christian with my advisors.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-06-2016, 05:35 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(24-06-2016 04:56 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Duly noted, I'll discuss your criteria for what it means to be a Christian with my advisors.

Those are not my criteria. The definition I gave would be accepted in mainstream catholic, orthodox, protestant, etc. churches.

This illustrates my point:
(24-06-2016 04:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't believe in whatever you likely think it means for Jesus to be the messiah, or God, or divine. And don't have the patience to deal with all the fundie baggage that gets flung in these parts.

If you are not willing to define and defend your beliefs then don't whine when people don't understand them.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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24-06-2016, 05:39 AM (This post was last modified: 24-06-2016 05:54 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(24-06-2016 04:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't believe in whatever you likely think it means for Jesus to be the messiah, or God, or divine. And don't have the patience to deal with all the fundie baggage that gets flung in these parts.

But you do believe in insulting atheists and making self-righteous generalizations about non-believers, as it makes you feel superior.

You STILL have never taken on ONE argument of Price or Carrier.
You can't.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-06-2016, 06:54 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Actually, I was there. The version of Bohemian rhapsody was astounding.


Queen with Freddie, what a band! Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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24-06-2016, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 24-06-2016 07:24 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(24-06-2016 04:29 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's an external non-Christian source corroborating aspects of the NT, not to mention a Roman historian. That's what was asked for, that's what was provided.

But you guys can keep moving the goal post all night.

Only in the deluded mind of atheists, can you take a variety of sources, first hand account of someone who met his brother and disciples, Josephus writing of his brother's death, Tacitus citing his Jesus's death under Pilate, and infer from aspects like this that Jesus did not exist. Tin-foil hats come cheap.

You guys have to do a better job selling the greatest conspiracy theory ever sold.

Would you like to actually address the reasons the account in Tacitus should not be taken as genuine or reliable that I raised or are you happy just having a temper tantrum and evading ever single criticism? Drinking Beverage You didn't really think I wouldnt notice you addressed 0% of the criticism raised? Like normal.

Oh and pointing out that your sources can't be trusted and are full of problems is not "moving the goal posts" it's applying proper skeptical analysis of a claim.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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24-06-2016, 07:15 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(24-06-2016 06:55 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Would you like to actually address the reasons the account in Tacitus should be taken as genuine or reliable that I raised or are you happy just having a temper tantrum and evading ever single criticism? Drinking Beverage You didn't really think I wouldnt notice you addressed 0% of the criticism raised? Like normal.

Oh and pointing out that your sources can't be trusted and are full of problems is not "moving the goal posts" it's applying proper skeptical analysis of a claim.

Takitus is not a good source. He had a personal grudge against the Julio Claudians as his family had suffered under them.

Everything in regards to that family must be viewed through this prism. His other histories are fine. However the reference to Chrestus needs to be viewed with caution. Was a christian copyist involved? We do not know.

We do know that all writings against xianity were destroyed by the xians after Constantine made it the official religion.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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