Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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17-08-2016, 07:49 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(17-08-2016 01:49 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(16-08-2016 03:25 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  No.

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Not good enough

If you are desperate enough to believe what you want to believe, there's nothing anyone can do about it. But if you see "Serapis Christ" together somewhere in those words, or if you see "the Christians were worshiping Serapis as though Serapis was Christ" then by all means, show us where the text says it.

Until then ...

No.

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17-08-2016, 09:53 AM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2016 09:58 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(17-08-2016 02:39 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  If the Jesus character is born into a religion which recognizes a messiah figure, and is purported to come out of Egypt, whether or not it did, then one has to look to Egypt. Then, one has to look at the symbolism of the cross. All of the symbolism of this religion is Egyptian.

What I believe was happening is that the Egyptian religion was pagan phallic worship. The cross is derived from the Egyptian Ankh which is the Coptic Christian cross and a symbol of life in Egypt. All the Egyptian gods carried one. The Egyptians used religion to further their sexual lives and they viewed the orgasm as the highest and most desirable state of mind. They believed the gods procreated and lived in this state of mind so they developed a religion which centered around sex. Priestesses had to have sex with 1000 men before becoming a priestess. Cleopatra gave blowjobs to visiting Roman dignitaries, and had sex with Julius Caesar. All of this was a "good thing" in that religion. However, the masses didn't get equal time so the followers of this religion were probably not very popular.

Anyway, if we think we have problems with child abuse by Priests now, these sorts of things, initiation rites, phallus worship, religious prostitution, were what the pre-Jesus religion was all about.

If the Romans were trying to get rid of this by introducing Serapis, and then Jesus, as spokespersons for a new, Hellenistic religion with the Golden Rule as its central principle, one can see how the people would have welcomed a figure who had converted to this new Hellenistic philosophy and decided to confront the elders of the existing church and how and why he wasn't accepted by them. It's probably not to do with politics as such, but a dislike among people of a ruling elite who were engaging in sexual practices as part of the religion which they used to justify themselves.

For me it's entirely Hellenism v. Paganism and there is plenty of support for this view of both "Judaism" or the messianic, cellestial phallic religion which predated Jesus in Egypt, and Hellenistic "judaism" which was being developed in Alexandria.

This is where Izates comes in because his mother converted to Hellenistic Judaism and organized a famine relief in Judea. Izates, like Jesus, was sent away during his youth and was also converted to Hellenistic Judaism while he was in Charanx Spasinu.

"During his youth Izates was sent by his father to the court of King Abinergaos I of Characene in Charax Spasinu. While in Charax Izates became acquainted with a Jewish merchant named Ananias, who familiarized him with the tenets of the Jewish religion, in which he became deeply interested. Izates married King Abinergaos' daughter Symacho who had been converted to Judaism through the efforts of Ananias. His mother had been previously won over to Judaism without his knowledge. On returning home and ascending the throne on the death of his father (c. 31 CE), Izates discovered the conversion of his mother; and he himself intended to adopt Judaism, and even to submit to circumcision. He was, however, dissuaded from this step both by his teacher Ananias and by his mother, but was ultimately persuaded thereto by another Jew, Eleazar" Wiki

The names in this come down to us in legend as Helen and Paris. The son, in legend, becomes the patron saint, George as a result of supression of the followers of these people after their defeat by the Romans in the war against the Jews. But, these weren't "Jews" as we know them. They were monotheists of the House of David or Dau, which is the Tao or phallus, ie., the Anhk. In Turkey the Nazar, or eye of Horus, is still venerated universally by all Turks and they all engage in ritual circumcision of their male children in a ceremony which mimics the cirucumcision of Izates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W7WaVPfSdY

The Near East, despite being Muslim, is an area full of suppressed and syncretic religions which have Christian elements or aspects which go back to something resembling, but not quite, what we now recognize as Christianity.

None of the gospels were written before this Izates was dead. His history is recounted in Jewish history and Armenian history books but we have been peddled the Romanized version in which Izates pro-Roman attitude is featured because he was pro-Roman. That is why the NT is written as it is and the crucifixion is blamed on the Jews. Izates was Hellenistic and opposed what was the descendant of a fertility religion, not Judaism as we know it.

You suffer from some sort of random apophenia. Facepalm OMG
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and...liefs.html
Big Grin

Quote:This is where Izates comes in because his mother converted to Hellenistic Judaism and organized a famine relief in Judea. Izates, like Jesus, was sent away during his youth and was also converted to Hellenistic Judaism while he was in Charanx Spasinu.

But the important question is, ..... when did his dog and his kitty cat convert to Hinduism.
The Egyptians embalmed their cats.
It's all about the pussies.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-08-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(17-08-2016 05:45 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  What the actual fuck?

You beat me to it. Damn. That delta bravo post is insane.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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17-08-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(17-08-2016 07:49 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 01:49 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Not good enough

If you are desperate enough to believe what you want to believe, there's nothing anyone can do about it. But if you see "Serapis Christ" together somewhere in those words, or if you see "the Christians were worshiping Serapis as though Serapis was Christ" then by all means, show us where the text says it.

Until then ...

No.

Drinking Beverage



"The name Chrestus (Christus) was another name for this deity Serapis and many in Antioch knew their god Serapis as their Christ. Many Christians say that they call themselves Christians because they are followers of Christ. The problem with this explanation is that the pagans that worshipped Serapis Chrestus (Christus) said the exact same thing.

In reality, the term "Chrestos" or χρηστὸς (chrestoi for plural) has been used in association with a plethora of people and gods, in ancient Greek sources such as those of playwright Sophocles (497-406 BCE)

As another example of the Pagan use of the word chrestos, in 2008 an evidently pre-Christian cup or bowl was found at Alexandria, Egypt, with the genitive form chrestou inscribed on it. This of magical bowls used for protection and incantation."

from http://robertmascharan.blogspot.com.au/2...f-g-d.html
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17-08-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(17-08-2016 07:49 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 01:49 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Not good enough

If you are desperate enough to believe what you want to believe, there's nothing anyone can do about it. But if you see "Serapis Christ" together somewhere in those words, or if you see "the Christians were worshiping Serapis as though Serapis was Christ" then by all means, show us where the text says it.

Until then ...

No.

Drinking Beverage

http://ajendu.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/th...in-of.html
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17-08-2016, 08:12 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(17-08-2016 03:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 07:49 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  If you are desperate enough to believe what you want to believe, there's nothing anyone can do about it. But if you see "Serapis Christ" together somewhere in those words, or if you see "the Christians were worshiping Serapis as though Serapis was Christ" then by all means, show us where the text says it.

Until then ...

No.

Drinking Beverage

"The name Chrestus (Christus) was another name for this deity Serapis and many in Antioch knew their god Serapis as their Christ. Many Christians say that they call themselves Christians because they are followers of Christ. The problem with this explanation is that the pagans that worshipped Serapis Chrestus (Christus) said the exact same thing.

In reality, the term "Chrestos" or χρηστὸς (chrestoi for plural) has been used in association with a plethora of people and gods, in ancient Greek sources such as those of playwright Sophocles (497-406 BCE)

As another example of the Pagan use of the word chrestos, in 2008 an evidently pre-Christian cup or bowl was found at Alexandria, Egypt, with the genitive form chrestou inscribed on it. This of magical bowls used for protection and incantation."

Despite the fact that both words are evidently related through the roots χρίω and χράω, "Chrēsto," the ablative of Chrestus, is not an "another spelling of Christ." These terms represent Latinizations of two different Greek words that sound quite similar: Chrēstos, sometimes a proper name, means "good," "righteous" or "useful"; while Christos denotes "anointed" or "messiah."

However, because linguistically both words are virtually indistinguishable in the vocalized Latin, Chrestus/Chrestians was often mistakenly used in place of Christus/Christians. This fact did not go unnoticed by early Christians, as we will see below:

Divine Institutes IV - Lactantius CE 325

For Christ is not a proper name, but a title of power and dominion; for by this the Jews were accustomed to call their kings. But the meaning of this name must be set forth, on account of the error of the ignorant, who by the change of a letter are accustomed to call Him Chrestus.

Tertullian 160-224 CE Apology Ch.III

"Now then, if this hatred is directed against the name, what is the guilt attaching to names? What accusation can be brought against words, except that a certain pronunciation of a name sounds barbarous, or is unlucky or abusive or obscene? But 'Christian,' as far as its etymology goes, is derived from 'anointing.' And even when it is incorrectly pronounced by you 'Chrestian' (for not even is your acquaintance with the name accurate), it is formed from 'sweetness' or 'kindness.' In innocent men, therefore, even an innocent name is hated."

Clement 150-211 CE Stromata IV

"Now those who have believed in Christ both are and are called Chrestians, as those who are cared for by the true king are kingly. For as the wise are wise by their wisdom, and those observant of law are so by the law; so also those who belong to Christ the King are kings, and those that are Christ’s Christians."

So ...


No.

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18-08-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(17-08-2016 08:12 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 03:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "The name Chrestus (Christus) was another name for this deity Serapis and many in Antioch knew their god Serapis as their Christ. Many Christians say that they call themselves Christians because they are followers of Christ. The problem with this explanation is that the pagans that worshipped Serapis Chrestus (Christus) said the exact same thing.

In reality, the term "Chrestos" or χρηστὸς (chrestoi for plural) has been used in association with a plethora of people and gods, in ancient Greek sources such as those of playwright Sophocles (497-406 BCE)

As another example of the Pagan use of the word chrestos, in 2008 an evidently pre-Christian cup or bowl was found at Alexandria, Egypt, with the genitive form chrestou inscribed on it. This of magical bowls used for protection and incantation."

Despite the fact that both words are evidently related through the roots χρίω and χράω, "Chrēsto," the ablative of Chrestus, is not an "another spelling of Christ." These terms represent Latinizations of two different Greek words that sound quite similar: Chrēstos, sometimes a proper name, means "good," "righteous" or "useful"; while Christos denotes "anointed" or "messiah."

However, because linguistically both words are virtually indistinguishable in the vocalized Latin, Chrestus/Chrestians was often mistakenly used in place of Christus/Christians. This fact did not go unnoticed by early Christians, as we will see below:

Divine Institutes IV - Lactantius CE 325

For Christ is not a proper name, but a title of power and dominion; for by this the Jews were accustomed to call their kings. But the meaning of this name must be set forth, on account of the error of the ignorant, who by the change of a letter are accustomed to call Him Chrestus.

Tertullian 160-224 CE Apology Ch.III

"Now then, if this hatred is directed against the name, what is the guilt attaching to names? What accusation can be brought against words, except that a certain pronunciation of a name sounds barbarous, or is unlucky or abusive or obscene? But 'Christian,' as far as its etymology goes, is derived from 'anointing.' And even when it is incorrectly pronounced by you 'Chrestian' (for not even is your acquaintance with the name accurate), it is formed from 'sweetness' or 'kindness.' In innocent men, therefore, even an innocent name is hated."

Clement 150-211 CE Stromata IV

"Now those who have believed in Christ both are and are called Chrestians, as those who are cared for by the true king are kingly. For as the wise are wise by their wisdom, and those observant of law are so by the law; so also those who belong to Christ the King are kings, and those that are Christ’s Christians."

So ...


No.

Drinking Beverage

You didn't read the link

http://ajendu.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/th...in-of.html

did you.
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18-08-2016, 08:54 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(18-08-2016 03:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 08:12 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  Despite the fact that both words are evidently related through the roots χρίω and χράω, "Chrēsto," the ablative of Chrestus, is not an "another spelling of Christ." These terms represent Latinizations of two different Greek words that sound quite similar: Chrēstos, sometimes a proper name, means "good," "righteous" or "useful"; while Christos denotes "anointed" or "messiah."

However, because linguistically both words are virtually indistinguishable in the vocalized Latin, Chrestus/Chrestians was often mistakenly used in place of Christus/Christians. This fact did not go unnoticed by early Christians, as we will see below:

Divine Institutes IV - Lactantius CE 325

For Christ is not a proper name, but a title of power and dominion; for by this the Jews were accustomed to call their kings. But the meaning of this name must be set forth, on account of the error of the ignorant, who by the change of a letter are accustomed to call Him Chrestus.

Tertullian 160-224 CE Apology Ch.III

"Now then, if this hatred is directed against the name, what is the guilt attaching to names? What accusation can be brought against words, except that a certain pronunciation of a name sounds barbarous, or is unlucky or abusive or obscene? But 'Christian,' as far as its etymology goes, is derived from 'anointing.' And even when it is incorrectly pronounced by you 'Chrestian' (for not even is your acquaintance with the name accurate), it is formed from 'sweetness' or 'kindness.' In innocent men, therefore, even an innocent name is hated."

Clement 150-211 CE Stromata IV

"Now those who have believed in Christ both are and are called Chrestians, as those who are cared for by the true king are kingly. For as the wise are wise by their wisdom, and those observant of law are so by the law; so also those who belong to Christ the King are kings, and those that are Christ’s Christians."

So ...


No.

Drinking Beverage

You didn't read the link

http://ajendu.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/th...in-of.html

did you.

I read the link. Nothing he said is grounded historically.

Why are you so easily sucked into rubbish like that? Don't you ever bother to investigate such claims? Serapis was not even brought up at the Council of Nicea. The name was never uttered even once.

Fuck ...

Consider
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19-08-2016, 03:14 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(18-08-2016 08:54 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 03:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You didn't read the link

http://ajendu.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/th...in-of.html

did you.

I read the link. Nothing he said is grounded historically.

Why are you so easily sucked into rubbish like that? Don't you ever bother to investigate such claims? Serapis was not even brought up at the Council of Nicea. The name was never uttered even once.

Fuck ...

Consider

not good enough
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19-08-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-08-2016 03:14 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 08:54 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  I read the link. Nothing he said is grounded historically.

Why are you so easily sucked into rubbish like that? Don't you ever bother to investigate such claims? Serapis was not even brought up at the Council of Nicea. The name was never uttered even once.

Fuck ...

Consider

not good enough

Whatever.

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