Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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22-06-2016, 09:05 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2016 09:47 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 08:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You claim that Philo visited Jerusalem frequently. And I called you out for making this up. Because Philo only mentioned visiting Jerusalem once in his life time.

Quote:I went over all this in that thread.

You did not. You are totally unable to even begin it. Just like you CLAIMED you addressed Carrier and Price somewhere else. You can't.
All just more continued deflection, as you are incompetent to even begin to address the real questions here.
I said I made one mistake. We do not know how often Philo was in Jerusalem, BUT the fact he had family and friends there makes it very likely he knew what was going on, AND you have evaded that, like you evade everything else.

You have NO EVIDENCE that there was a Jesus of Nazareth that holds up to scrutiny. Josephus is unreliable. deal with the arguments, or STFU.

Quote:Josephus James/Jesus passage is considered reliable and authentic, you have yet to make a persuasive argument to suggest it isn't.

You can't prove that. And you can't prove they are objective.
No one cares whether you think something is "persuasive". In fact you have disqualified yourself from this discussion by admitting you cannot image life/the universe without your presuppositions. You are 110% biased, and incapable of addressing the issues.

Josephus is unreliable. Totally unreliable.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-06-2016, 09:11 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2016 09:20 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 08:56 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I did and do claim that Philo of Alexandria was "in the area", because of friends/colleagues/famly in the in the city, with much connection to the culture of Jerusalem, and would doubtless have heard of the crazy events surrounding this Jesus (and the zombies/darkness/etc.), if it was something other than a rumor/myth that arose among cultists in the first century of Christian cult-evolution. That's it.

To quote you: " I have seen several people state (correctly) that he went there within a few years after the alleged execution,"

This is false, none of the sources we have regarding Philo, even Philo own writing support the claim that he was in the Roman-Palestine area on or around Jesus's execution.

Are you willing to be honest now and acknowledge that you were wrong to support this claim?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 08:56 AM)seoq Wrote:  about it). Given that what Jesus supposedly did was so miraculous you would expect news of it to spread just as fast between those who did not believe as it supposedly did with those who did believe.

And it did, a "mischievous superstition" as Tacitus called it, "thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. "

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Another thread from Tomato to make the same bullshit claims without addressing any criticisms. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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22-06-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 09:05 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You can't prove that. And you can't prove they are objective.
No one cares whether you think something is "persuasive".
Josephus is unreliable. Totally unreliable.

lol, just the non-sensical ramblings of another dishonest atheists.

Either, there's a strong and persuasive case to made for why the James/Josephus is unreliable, inauthentic, like there is for the Testomnium or there isn't. Either there's an argument strongly in favor of inauthenticity or there isn't.

You clearly don't have that argument, and you appeal to some sort of dishonest agnosticism on the question, because that's the best you can muster.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
So were at "the fact that we have ab-so-fucking-lutely no contemporary accounts or other evidence supporting Jesus´ existence at all supports the claim of his existence or even proves it"?

Were at "hmmm, maybe some guy mentioned him fucking once (maybe, ill grant that for the sake of argument) and thats enough to base your claim on that he was a goddam fucking reincarnation of the creator of the entire cosmos"?

Are we there already, yes? I just wanted to know before Tomato in his usual disgusting and dishonest style is finished hijacking another thread.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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22-06-2016, 09:39 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 09:32 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  So were at "the fact that we have ab-so-fucking-lutely no contemporary accounts or other evidence supporting Jesus´ existence at all supports the claim of his existence or even proves it"?

Either what we have falls in line with our expectations as to what is to be expect if he existed, or falls in line with what we would expect if he didn't exist.

When you have things like Josephus writing of the death of his brother, when you have first hand accounts of an individual who met both his brother and his disciples, stuff like this falls in like with our expectations of a historical person, and our inconveniences for those who want to suggest he didn't exist. After all non-historical people don't have real brothers.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 09:42 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 09:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 09:32 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  So were at "the fact that we have ab-so-fucking-lutely no contemporary accounts or other evidence supporting Jesus´ existence at all supports the claim of his existence or even proves it"?

Either what we have falls in line with our expectations as to what is to be expect if he existed, or falls in line with what we would expect if he didn't exist.

When you have things like Josephus writing of the death of his brother, when you have first hand accounts of an individual who met both his brother and his disciples, stuff like this falls in like with our expectations of a historical person, and our inconveniences for those who want to suggest he didn't exist. After all non-historical people don't have real brothers.

Someone writing about someone (with a common name no less) decades after the person supposedly existed when there is precisely 0 evidence from contemporary sources, isn't in-line with any logical belief that this person was likely to be real.

You presupposing this person exists biases you to believe literally anything that you want to support your Jesus. And how many people have you convinced with this presuppositional bullshit? Consider

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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22-06-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 09:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 09:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Either what we have falls in line with our expectations as to what is to be expect if he existed, or falls in line with what we would expect if he didn't exist.

When you have things like Josephus writing of the death of his brother, when you have first hand accounts of an individual who met both his brother and his disciples, stuff like this falls in like with our expectations of a historical person, and our inconveniences for those who want to suggest he didn't exist. After all non-historical people don't have real brothers.

Someone writing about someone (with a common name no less) decades after the person supposedly existed when there is precisely 0 evidence from contemporary sources, isn't in-line with any logical belief that this person was likely to be real.

You presupposing this person exists biases you to believe literally anything that you want to support your Jesus. And how many people have you convinced with this presuppositional bullshit? Consider

And you belong to the dishonest constituency whose brain is so fried that they have trouble inferring one way or the other. They are unable to determine whether the sources and materials we have support the existence of a historical jesus, or support that he did not exist at all.

The dishonesty requires them to project themselves as those sitting on the fence on the question, as innocuous agnostics.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 09:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And it did, a "mischievous superstition" as Tacitus called it, "thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. "

Your point being?
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