Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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06-07-2016, 04:44 AM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 04:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Except they made it up. It was Passover weekend, not just a Sabbath.
There is no record of it. Just like there is no record of the temple curtain being torn, yet records of all sorts of other less important events.
It never happened.


I'm not sure who you were expecting to write about the trial? The Jews? The Jews didn't write of James trial either. They didn't record that either, so why would they have recorded Jesus's ad-box trial?







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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-07-2016, 06:17 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 04:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 04:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Except they made it up. It was Passover weekend, not just a Sabbath.
There is no record of it. Just like there is no record of the temple curtain being torn, yet records of all sorts of other less important events.
It never happened.

I'm not sure who you were expecting to write about the trial? The Jews? The Jews didn't write of James trial either. They didn't record that either, so why would they have recorded Jesus's ad-box trial?

I would have expected Jewish commentators who commented on all kinds of other mundane events to mention it. You have purposely chosen to ignore the fact it was PASSOVER weekend. If James had a trial, it was not on Passover.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-07-2016, 08:24 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 08:33 AM by GoingUp.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 02:36 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 04:50 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  That`s my answer, and that is not a dodge at all. I have no religious beliefs at all.

And all religions are false, so no exposure of them is really necessary.

So why are you using terms like "militant atheist" and "mythicist" in such a negative context?

Because like anything else that requires one to hold a position, an over-indulgence can only produce extremists.

Atheism is not immune in its ability to produce people who can take the position too far. I have met hundreds of atheists in my life, and most are just normal folks like most other people. However, some take their atheism to such an extreme as to put the blinders on when it comes to such things as we are discussing here, among other things. The thing is, these extreme and improbable views held by these militant atheists do a dis-service to the atheist position, since the atheist position prides itself on the employment of rationality and reason.

In the context of this discussion here, for example, I see absolutely no rationality or reason to hold on to a position of hearsay- when no evidence of it can be supplied- in regards to Tacitus as if that is the most probable explanation, when the internal evidence strongly indicates otherwise. It is my experience that this position is only held by atheists who have a very big bone to pick with religion.

Whenever it comes to Jesus, many atheists simply lose the plot. His non-existence matters to them far more than any degree of rationality, and therefore rationality is completely disregarded when it comes to this subject.

I see people such as yourself convincing yourself of things that are so improbable and so poorly supported with actual evidence as it becomes virtually impossible to change your views, or to even consider alternatives with a rational and reasonable mind.

Let me show you what I mean.

1. In regards to Tacitus, favoring hearsay in regards to Christus when the internal evidence and the scholarly community so strongly indicates otherwise is no different than when a religionist holds on to creationism in the face of the Big Bang theory and what the scientific community regards as the best explanation.

2. In regards to Josephus- and in particular his 2nd mention of Jesus- to claim this 2nd mention is either not genuine or refers to someone else because the 1st mention of Jesus in Josephus may be an interpolation is no different than saying something to the effect of, "Richard Dawkins once told a lie, so therefore everything Richard Dawkins says is a lie." It's obviously a fallacious position. Not only that, those who claim this 2nd mention is not genuine, or refers to someone else not only disagree with the scholarly community, but agree with the exact same scholarly community who say the 1st mention is probably, at the very least, a partial interpolation.

Every single discussion with atheists on atheist forums regrading the existence of Jesus always results in their mockery of the very things they claim to hold so dear, such as reason and rationality. The only common denominator in this respect is that their distaste for the Christian religion runs so deep that they become militant against it to such as an extreme as to deny themselves the proper employment of reason and rationality.

Even Richard Dawkins, whom I hold in very high esteem, agrees with the scholarly community that Jesus of Nazareth probably existed as an ordinary man, and was crucified by Pilate, and whom became the focal point of the Christian religion, subsequently resulting in the embellishment of his life.

So you insist that I seem to care so much, yet look in the mirror Mark. I am not the one with irrational arguments, postulating improbable theories, and holding positions with no evidence to support them, or making numerous claims of interpolations because the alternative doesn't fit with your beliefs.

I am simply following the practice of rational thinking and with my own extensive education, agreeing with the conclusions of the scholarly community as well as the conclusions of such well respected and well balanced atheists as Richard Dawkins.

But I also know from experience that anything I say here will be met with severe derision because I will not actually be heard, nor will anything I say ever be carefully considered.

Because that is how militant atheism works.
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06-07-2016, 08:49 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 08:24 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  Because that is how militant atheism works.

Conservapedia? Seriously, dude? Facepalm

You appear to have just exposed your true colors.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-07-2016, 08:51 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 08:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 08:24 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  Because that is how militant atheism works.

Conservapedia? Seriously, dude? Facepalm

You appear to have just exposed your true colors.

There are dozens of sites to link to. Point is, that is how it is viewed.

It is not lost on me that the only thing you could see in that post was a link.

Because that is how militant atheism works.
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06-07-2016, 09:31 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 09:35 AM by Chas.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 08:51 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 08:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  Conservapedia? Seriously, dude? Facepalm

You appear to have just exposed your true colors.

There are dozens of sites to link to. Point is, that is how it is viewed.

Yeah, by rabid conservative Christians.

Quote:It is not lost on me that the only thing you could see in that post was a link.

It's not lost on me that your post was entirely bullshit.
That link was just the final straw that broke the back of your credibility.

Quote:Because that is how militant atheism works.

Your straw man of atheism, you mean.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-07-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 08:24 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  The thing is, these extreme and improbable views held by these militant atheists do a dis-service to the atheist position, since the atheist position prides itself on the employment of rationality and reason.

I'd like to hear some more of these "extreme and improbable views" held by atheists that employ "rationality and reason."

Consider
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06-07-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 08:24 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  But I also know from experience that anything I say here will be met with severe derision because I will not actually be heard, nor will anything I say ever be carefully considered.

Because we are not here for your entertainment.

(05-07-2016 03:53 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  It's not a big deal if he existed or not. I just like to debate that he did for the sake of entertaining myself.

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06-07-2016, 10:19 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 09:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 08:51 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  There are dozens of sites to link to. Point is, that is how it is viewed.

Yeah, by rabid conservative Christians.

No, not all, nor even most. More ir-rationalism.


Quote:

It is not lost on me that the only thing you could see in that post was a link.
[/quote]

It's not lost on me that your post was entirely bullshit.
That link was just the final straw that broke the back of your credibility.[/quote]

If- according to you- that's all it takes to "break the back" of anyone's credibility, then you are proving my point.

Quote:
Quote:Because that is how militant atheism works.

Your straw man of atheism, you mean.

No strawman here. That's just what people say when they have no real argument.
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06-07-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(06-07-2016 08:24 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  But I also know from experience that anything I say here will be met with severe derision because I will not actually be heard, nor will anything I say ever be carefully considered.

I don't know about anyone else but I appreciate you posting here. I'm trying to figure things out for myself and diverse viewpoints are important for that.
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