Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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22-06-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 11:19 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Uses Christian stories/myths to support Christian stories/myths while ignoring the lack of contemporary evidence to corroborate Christian stories/myths (the purpose of this and numerous other threads tomato has tried to hijack with presuppositionalist apologetics)

-100 for repetition of stupid shit
-1000 for quite literally using myth to support myth. Drinking Beverage

"The bible says..."
No one cares. The bible has no corroborating evidence Laugh out load

The bible contains a collection of writings, by multiple authors, serving a variety of different functions and purposes, and can be used as support, and as corroboration for a variety of things, including history. And has been used this way, by both christians and non-christians alike, historians, scholars etc...

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 12:35 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:17 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 11:19 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Uses Christian stories/myths to support Christian stories/myths while ignoring the lack of contemporary evidence to corroborate Christian stories/myths (the purpose of this and numerous other threads tomato has tried to hijack with presuppositionalist apologetics)

-100 for repetition of stupid shit
-1000 for quite literally using myth to support myth. Drinking Beverage

"The bible says..."
No one cares. The bible has no corroborating evidence Laugh out load

The bible contains a collection of writings, by multiple authors, serving a variety of different functions and purposes, and can be used as support, and as corroboration for a variety of things, including history. And has been used this way, by both christians and non-christians alike, historians, scholars etc...

Yabut, any historian who uses the Bible as his/her sole source is on pretty shaky ground. And that's what we're really talking about here. If the Bible says something that is not corroborated elsewhere, who cares?
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22-06-2016, 12:45 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:17 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 11:19 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Uses Christian stories/myths to support Christian stories/myths while ignoring the lack of contemporary evidence to corroborate Christian stories/myths (the purpose of this and numerous other threads tomato has tried to hijack with presuppositionalist apologetics)

-100 for repetition of stupid shit
-1000 for quite literally using myth to support myth. Drinking Beverage

"The bible says..."
No one cares. The bible has no corroborating evidence Laugh out load

The bible contains a collection of writings, by multiple authors, serving a variety of different functions and purposes, and can be used as support, and as corroboration for a variety of things, including history. And has been used this way, by both christians and non-christians alike, historians, scholars etc...

The bible is what is in question. So using the bible to try and allay criticisms of the bible is circular reasoning (at best).

Either you're too stupid to understand or you're dishonest and simply don't care that your arguments are bullshit. I suspect both

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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22-06-2016, 12:47 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:35 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Yabut, any historian who uses the Bible as his/her sole source is on pretty shaky ground. And that's what we're really talking about here. If the Bible says something that is not corroborated elsewhere, who cares?

People here seem to speak of the bible as if it's a single work, rather that a compilation of a variety of writings, for a variety of different people, devoted to a variety of different concerns and purposes.

Historians, scholars, etc.. are able to draw a variety of reasonable inferences based solely on these writings, some of which may be corroborated by others sources outside of the bible, some of which is not, some of which is corroborated by other writings of the bible itself. Non-Biblical sources might help strengthen a case for any of these particular inferences, but is not necessarily required to draw such inferences in the first place.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 12:52 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:45 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The bible is what is in question. So using the bible to try and allay criticisms of the bible is circular reasoning (at best).

As stated previously, the bible is collection of writings, by a variety of different people, with variety of different concerns and interest, who likely had no idea they would be eventually canonized into an anthology.

Any particular inference drawn from these sources can be criticized on their own merits, as to whether those inferences are sound, reasonable, more likely to be the case than not, or whether an alternative explanation is more likely to be the case.

The claim that historians, scholars, laymen, etc.. can't draw such inferences, seems to be nothing more than the silly belief of internet atheists.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 12:53 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:17 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  The bible contains a collection of writings, by multiple authors, serving a variety of different functions and purposes, and can be used as support, and as corroboration for a variety of things, including history. And has been used this way, by both christians and non-christians alike, historians, scholars etc...

I own a lot of books all about Greek, Roman and Norse mythology. They are collections of different writings from different eras by different people in different countries translated from different languages, many of the writers were historians and scholars.

Does that mean Zeus is real? According to your logic a book containing writings by multiple authors serving a variety of functions including historical accounts of kingdoms and wars and has been used for religious purposes and as a historical reference must be true! You can't be serious, that's such a weak reason to believe one book of fairy tales is more correct than another book of fairy tales, they can't all be right.

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22-06-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 12:45 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The bible is what is in question. So using the bible to try and allay criticisms of the bible is circular reasoning (at best).

As stated previously, the bible is collection of writings, by a variety of different people, with variety of different concerns and interest, who likely had no idea they would be eventually canonized into an anthology.

Any particular inference drawn from these sources can be criticized on their own merits, as to whether those inferences are sound, reasonable, more likely to be the case than not, or whether an alternative explanation is more likely to be the case.

The claim that historians, scholars, laymen, etc.. can't draw such inferences, seems to be nothing more than the silly belief of internet atheists.

Like I said, too stupid to understand or too dishonest to care.

-100 pts

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22-06-2016, 01:03 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:54 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 12:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  As stated previously, the bible is collection of writings, by a variety of different people, with variety of different concerns and interest, who likely had no idea they would be eventually canonized into an anthology.

Any particular inference drawn from these sources can be criticized on their own merits, as to whether those inferences are sound, reasonable, more likely to be the case than not, or whether an alternative explanation is more likely to be the case.

The claim that historians, scholars, laymen, etc.. can't draw such inferences, seems to be nothing more than the silly belief of internet atheists.

Like I said, too stupid to understand or too dishonest to care.

-100 pts

No, I understand, you imagine there are these supposed rules, such as one can't use the bible to draw inferences in regards to history, and etc. A rule you likely won't learn in any course on history, but seems to be an internet atheist invention.

Historians and scholars draw a variety of reasonable inferences based on the NT writings, sometimes corroborated by sources outsides of the NT and sometimes not. A fried brain atheist, such as yourself, who can't map out directions from his agnostic perch, finds himself unable to do so.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 01:09 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Quote:I'm wondering if there are any contemporary accounts of Jesus.


Nope. Not a fucking one. Curiously, what "accounts" we do have do not even claim to be "contemporary." That is a fiction created by morons, such as you see above, to help their fictional godboy out.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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22-06-2016, 01:10 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:53 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I own a lot of books all about Greek, Roman and Norse mythology. They are collections of different writings from different eras by different people in different countries translated from different languages, many of the writers were historians and scholars.

Does that mean Zeus is real? According to your logic a book containing writings by multiple authors serving a variety of functions including historical accounts of kingdoms and wars and has been used for religious purposes and as a historical reference must be true! You can't be serious, that's such a weak reason to believe one book of fairy tales is more correct than another book of fairy tales, they can't all be right.

I didn't say it must be true, I said reasonable inferences can be drawn from such writings, including inferring that this is likely not to be true, that it was an invention of the writer, or the community the writer belonged, to etc... This is what scholars and historians do, why they might relegate individuals like Abraham, Samson the way they do Zeus, as non-historical persons, while recognizing that Jesus was a historical person, that inspired the accounts about him.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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