Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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22-06-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 01:03 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 12:54 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Like I said, too stupid to understand or too dishonest to care.

-100 pts

No, I understand, you imagine there are these supposed rules, such as one can't use the bible to draw inferences in regards to history, and etc. A rule you likely won't learn in any course on history, but seems to be an internet atheist invention.

Historians and scholars draw a variety of reasonable inferences based on the NT writings, sometimes corroborated by sources outsides of the NT and sometimes not. A fried brain atheist, such as yourself, who can't map out directions from his agnostic perch, finds himself unable to do so.

And there is the dishonesty.

"The bible proves the bible! Stupid atheists don't believe the bible or its unknown authors. Stupid atheists."

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22-06-2016, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2016 01:19 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 01:13 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And there is the dishonesty.

"The bible proves the bible! Stupid atheists don't believe the bible or it's unknown authors. Stupid atheists."

-100 pts

Yes, even more dishonest rubbish from you.

I take accusations of dishonesty from a bunch of folks who made a dictum of a lack of belief, with a grain of salt.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
You have a lot in common with this douchebag, Tommy.

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22-06-2016, 01:23 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 01:10 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I didn't say it must be true, I said reasonable inferences can be drawn from such writings, including inferring that this is likely not to be true, that it was an invention of the writer, or the community the writer belonged, to etc... This is what scholars and historians do, why they might relegate individuals like Abraham, Samson the way they do Zeus, as non-historical persons, while recognizing that Jesus was a historical person, that inspired the accounts about him.

Why are you assuming just because some historians think that Jesus may have existed that means he did exist and was actually God made mortal? That's quite the leap. You're depending on sources outside the Bible that were written decades after he died by people who never saw him, how is that reliable?

That's like saying King Arthur may have really lived according to some historians but did he really pull Excalibur out of a large boulder with help from Merlin the wizard? Nope! So even if Jesus was real and even the gospels get details of his life mixed up why should anyone believe he was in any way divine or magical? There isn't any and there are no reliable historical accounts during his lifetime that corroborates the Bible, not one single shred of anything resembling actual evidence that this god man ever existed.

Like I said before if I went around talking about a magic man who lived and died and then came back to life in 1916 but no evidence of it from that time exists, only stories being told this year you wouldn't believe it, so why believe this Jesus guy ever lived just because a couple historians said so 100 years after he died?

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22-06-2016, 01:25 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Quote:Why are you assuming just because some historians think that Jesus may have existed that means he did exist and was actually God made mortal?


Because he wants to. It's very important to him that his bullshit be true.

Its why I have dismissed him as an asshole.

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22-06-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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22-06-2016, 01:30 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 01:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 01:13 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And there is the dishonesty.

"The bible proves the bible! Stupid atheists don't believe the bible or it's unknown authors. Stupid atheists."

-100 pts

Yes, even more dishonest rubbish from you.

I take accusations of dishonesty from a bunch of folks who made a dictum of a lack of belief, with a grain of salt.

Calling out your dishonesty, isn't equivalent with me being dishonest. Your ignorance seems to make that a confusing concept for you.

-100 pts for trying so hard to be so ignorant

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22-06-2016, 01:42 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 01:23 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Why are you assuming just because some historians think that Jesus may have existed that means he did exist and was actually God made mortal? That's quite the leap.
For me personally, Jesus could have been nothing but a lunatic of a man, who performed not a single miracle, yet would still be God. But I'd wager that you and I don't have a great deal in common as to what God would mean here.

Quote:You're depending on sources outside the Bible that were written decades after he died by people who never saw him, how is that reliable?

Because those writings didn't appear out of thin ear, but are a compilation of a variety of sources, many shared between them. Aramaic sources, Q, M, L, both oral and written sources that preceded them.

And we do have writings, like that of Paul who might not have ever met Jesus, but did meet his disciples, and his brother.

Quote:So even if Jesus was real and even the gospels get details of his life mixed up why should anyone believe he was in any way divine or magical?

No one needs to believe he was divine or magical, to acknowledge he was a historical person. No one need to believe the accounts of Ceaser miracles, including miraculous birth, need to acknowledge the the was a historical person.


Quote:Like I said before if I went around talking about a magic man who lived and died and then came back to life in 1916 but no evidence of it from that time exists, only stories being told this year you wouldn't believe it, so why believe this Jesus guy ever lived just because a couple historians said so 100 years after he died?

Historians believe that this Jesus guy existed because it makes better sense of what occurred in the first century, and the variety of writings and materials we have from that period, than the ridiculous suggest that he didn't exist at all. That historicity is a better explanation, than the mother of all conspiracy theories.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 01:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Calling out your dishonesty, isn't equivalent with me being dishonest. Your ignorance seems to make that a confusing concept for you.

-100 pts for trying so hard to be so ignorant

No, you're just a liar, whose dishonesty might be protected here, but I'll still call you out on it.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 02:05 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 09:11 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  To quote you: " I have seen several people state (correctly) that he went there within a few years after the alleged execution,"

This is false, none of the sources we have regarding Philo, even Philo own writing support the claim that he was in the Roman-Palestine area on or around Jesus's execution.

Are you willing to be honest now and acknowledge that you were wrong to support this claim?

Philo died around 50 C.E.

In On Providence, section 2.64, Philo states that he visited the Temple in Jerusalem. That would have been within 20 years of Jesus' alleged execution.

Thus, the alleged stories (miracle man, major trial/execution, zombies, darkness, torn veil, etc.) would certainly have been still circulating in the religious and familial circles in which he ran. Only by suggesting he spoke to no one who would have remembered these major alleged events can you say that he would not have had every reason to write about these things, had they happened.

So no, I'm not going to retract what I said. I said it then, I meant it then, and I mean it now. Why you're unwilling to grasp this basic thing we've tried to explain to you, I don't know.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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