Context!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-03-2013, 07:17 PM
Context!
On Facebook, I got into an argument with my friend's mom about biblical inconsistencies, contradictions, and factual errors. At one point, I made the mistake of telling her that I hadn't read the entire bible. From that point on, she kept telling me that she couldn't take me seriously because I didn't have all the context of the bible.


My friend's mom had a fairly legitimate point, but how much context do you really need to see how absurd it is for a snake to talk and for a man to turn water into wine? Is there anyone who can remember every sentence of the bible and see the big picture?


Whenever I quote the bible, I do try to include as much context as I can, but context in the bible is partly dependent on what you believe about it. For example, an Atheist might say that the talking snake in the Garden of Eden and Satan are not related, but a Christian would say that they are, hence expanding the context of Genesis to other parts of the bible where Satan is discussed.


For those of you who have read the entire bible, would you say that it makes a big difference? Is it okay to focus on the popular parts of the bible that I learned in church and use a bible search engine for the rest?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-03-2013, 07:32 PM
RE: Context!
(11-03-2013 07:17 PM)stardust84 Wrote:  On Facebook, I got into an argument with my friend's mom about biblical inconsistencies, contradictions, and factual errors. At one point, I made the mistake of telling her that I hadn't read the entire bible. From that point on, she kept telling me that she couldn't take me seriously because I didn't have all the context of the bible.


My friend's mom had a fairly legitimate point, but how much context do you really need to see how absurd it is for a snake to talk and for a man to turn water into wine? Is there anyone who can remember every sentence of the bible and see the big picture?


Whenever I quote the bible, I do try to include as much context as I can, but context in the bible is partly dependent on what you believe about it. For example, an Atheist might say that the talking snake in the Garden of Eden and Satan are not related, but a Christian would say that they are, hence expanding the context of Genesis to other parts of the bible where Satan is discussed.


For those of you who have read the entire bible, would you say that it makes a big difference? Is it okay to focus on the popular parts of the bible that I learned in church and use a bible search engine for the rest?
Not terribly important to have read all of it.

Much of it is disconnected, even some of the books are internally discordant.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-03-2013, 07:39 PM
RE: Context!
(11-03-2013 07:17 PM)stardust84 Wrote:  On Facebook, I got into an argument with my friend's mom about biblical inconsistencies, contradictions, and factual errors. At one point, I made the mistake of telling her that I hadn't read the entire bible. From that point on, she kept telling me that she couldn't take me seriously because I didn't have all the context of the bible.
[/font]
My friend's mom had a fairly legitimate point, but how much context do you really need to see how absurd it is for a snake to talk and for a man to turn water into wine? Is there anyone who can remember every sentence of the bible and see the big picture?

Whenever I quote the bible, I do try to include as much context as I can, but context in the bible is partly dependent on what you believe about it. For example, an Atheist might say that the talking snake in the Garden of Eden and Satan are not related, but a Christian would say that they are, hence expanding the context of Genesis to other parts of the bible where Satan is discussed.

[font=Arial]For those of you who have read the entire bible, would you say that it makes a big difference? Is it okay to focus on the popular parts of the bible that I learned in church and use a bible search engine for the rest?
I've read the entire Bible and it didn't change a thing. There is no context in which child rape can be considered acceptable moral behavior. Not for magical sky ghosts.... not in Israel.... not in 200BC. In simple terms, it is always wrong for everyone anywhere to rape a child.

This argument from context is a shell game people play in an attempt to justify the (alleged) abhorrent behavior of their tyrannical deities.

My response to this woman would be thus... Okay then can you explain, from an objective moral standpoint, what possible context there can be for X, Y or Z topic of discussion? And I wouldn't relent. There's no reason to argue that god did or didn't do something because god doesn't exist. The important argument is how do you justify these atrocities, if they had indeed happened?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-03-2013, 07:40 PM
RE: Context!
(11-03-2013 07:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not terribly important to have read all of it.

Much of it is disconnected, even some of the books are internally discordant.
That's what I figured, but it never hurts to challenge one's assumptions.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-03-2013, 07:45 PM
RE: Context!
(11-03-2013 07:39 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I've read the entire Bible and it didn't change a thing. There is no context in which child rape can be considered acceptable moral behavior. Not for magical sky ghosts.... not in Israel.... not in 200BC. In simple terms, it is always wrong for everyone anywhere to rape a child.

This argument from context is a shell game people play in an attempt to justify the (alleged) abhorrent behavior of their tyrannical deities.

My response to this woman would be thus... Okay then can you explain, from an objective moral standpoint, what possible context there can be for X, Y or Z topic of discussion? And I wouldn't relent. There's no reason to argue that god did or didn't do something because god doesn't exist. The important argument is how do you justify these atrocities, if they had indeed happened?
Very true. I took a similar approach by mentioning a few examples of atrocities in the old testament, and her response was basically that they must've had it coming, that god's judgments are infallible. I don't know how you reason with someone like that who is so thoroughly brainwashed.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-03-2013, 08:11 PM
RE: Context!
(11-03-2013 07:45 PM)stardust84 Wrote:  
(11-03-2013 07:39 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I've read the entire Bible and it didn't change a thing. There is no context in which child rape can be considered acceptable moral behavior. Not for magical sky ghosts.... not in Israel.... not in 200BC. In simple terms, it is always wrong for everyone anywhere to rape a child.

This argument from context is a shell game people play in an attempt to justify the (alleged) abhorrent behavior of their tyrannical deities.

My response to this woman would be thus... Okay then can you explain, from an objective moral standpoint, what possible context there can be for X, Y or Z topic of discussion? And I wouldn't relent. There's no reason to argue that god did or didn't do something because god doesn't exist. The important argument is how do you justify these atrocities, if they had indeed happened?
Very true. I took a similar approach by mentioning a few examples of atrocities in the old testament, and her response was basically that they must've had it coming, that god's judgments are infallible. I don't know how you reason with someone like that who is so thoroughly brainwashed.
You don't. On a one on one basis, you'd just as soon try to nail jello to the wall as reason with that sort of person but, in a public forum it can be productive. Not because you might cause them to change their mind but because someone who is reading the debate & is at least attempting to think logically might find a nugget of truth in your arguments.

And I don't mean that your arguments only have a nugget of truth in them... I mean that they might find a nugget of truth they didn't already have. Shy

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-03-2013, 09:56 PM
RE: Context!
(11-03-2013 08:11 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  And I don't mean that your arguments only have a nugget of truth in them... I mean that they might find a nugget of truth they didn't already have. Shy

I've never managed to change a Christian's mind about their religion, but I hope that I've at least planted some seeds of doubt that will sprout later. Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-03-2013, 09:58 PM
RE: Context!
Ever read the alternate ending where it turns out the whole thing was a dream sequence?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like WeAreTheCosmos's post
12-03-2013, 02:25 PM
RE: Context!



Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Misanthropik's post
13-03-2013, 12:32 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2013 02:41 PM by FSM_scot.)
RE: Context!
Don't be fooled. Proper context for any ancient text is the historical and literary world that produced these texts. A theist's cry for "context" is just lip-service, an empty rhetorical excalmative... and disingenuous to the very texts and authors themselves!

1 Bible contradiction a day -- identified & explained !! http://contradictionsinthebible.com
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: