Contradiction in the Quran
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25-08-2014, 06:36 PM
Contradiction in the Quran
I thought I would start a thread for Muslim....

contradiction:

How long did it take Allah to create heaven and earth?

6 days
Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?
Qur'an 10:3

or

8 days

Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask;
Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower
Qur'an 41:9-12

Of course prepared my self and read the Response by Dr. Zakir Naik and listened to him on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Dev0OrSGs

...and his response is pathetic.

Firstly - it is clear the Quran Plagiarized the Bible

Secondly - if there is confusion on how to translate arabic words due to multiple meanings then the Quran is not clearly worded.

Thirdly - there is no excuse for claiming days "are long periods of time" - thats pathetic. If the Quran was clear and not utterly scientifically mistaken it could have said billions of years, extremely long time or other even non specific comment. However by specifying and committing itself to "6 days" it is either blatantly wrong or utterly confusing if metaphor is intended. Its also clear from this that the 6 day idea came from the Bible - Mohammed didnt know any better.

Fourthly - He placed firm hills and blessed the Earth ?
Really ?
[Image: landslide.jpg]

This hills don't seem so firm.

[Image: msh_pyroflow_jwwallace_s.jpg]

...and this hill is no longer very hill like - kind of gone Pyroclastic with a gaping hole in the middle - Holy Hill ! Blessed !

...and Allah is so just - whoever is in the way of the Pyroclastic flow regardless if they are babies or children gets blessed too.
...at least its merciful compared to Allah's other works such as his great baby designs when making congenitally deformed babies like Harlequins Ichtheosis..

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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25-08-2014, 07:10 PM
RE: Contradiction in the Quran
(25-08-2014 06:36 PM)Baruch Wrote:  I thought I would start a thread for Muslim....

I'll play but only because I think I might learn something interesting from you and other members here. Ain't gonna learn dick from the shuttlecock other than practice in tolerating fools and dimwits. I have found that to be a useful and valuable skill though.

Mine is not about a contradiction in the Quran, Muslim, but rather a question regarding an apparent discrepancy between what you preach and what you practice. Since the Quran dictates that monetary interest on loans is strictly forbidden, how do you guys buy houses and cars and big item shit? Seems like you'd have to save up all of the cash up front. That could take a very long time.

When I asked my Muslim colleague about this he said "Yeah. All we can do is sacrifice almost everything else to get out of that state of iniquity as quickly as possible. Paid off my house in 5 years but we was eating a lot of Ramen noodles." "Impressive." I says.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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29-08-2014, 11:24 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2014 11:31 PM by PaulPablo.)
RE: Contradiction in the Quran
This isn't even really a definite contradiction within the quran but more a contradiction between what is in the quran and what every Muslim believes.

Muslims believe you can be forgiven for shirk (associating others with god) this includes things like saying god has a son and that they're are several gods.

Obviously this is true because Muslims always pride themselves on how many Christians, Hindus and pagans are converting to Islam and have in the past, I doubt they would convert if they believed they were never going to be forgiven for associating partners with God.

But the quran simply does not agree with this belief.

You can actually search for the verse and every translation there is it will all say the same thing so there can be no excuses.

Quote:Sahih International
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.

It says nearly the identical thing in another verse. I won't bother to copy and paste every translation of the other verse but you can check for yourself if you like 4:116 of the quran.

Muslims I have shown this verse to say this obviously means god does not forgive shirk after a person dies and he is already being judged, it isn't talking about when a person commits shirk (associating others with god) and they are still alive and can repent after.

My question to this response is why is it obvious? This is the perfect holy book of god, surely no words needed to be added in to help it make sense.
The unaltered word of god says he does not forgive association, no added clauses or conditional factors are involved.
Yes if you add your own additional clauses it makes perfect sense, god doesn't forgive association unless you repent before you die, totally understandable. Except that isn't what the quran says.

I once had a debate with a Muslim and I asked him two questions.
Does he believe god does forgive people who associate others with him. and does the quran say that god does not forgive people who associate others with him.
Asked him for a yes or no answer and the answer was yes and yes.
yes he believes god forgives association and yes the quran says god does not forgive association with him.
This is a common opinion amongst pretty much every Muslim I have spoke to and I've been called stupid and ignorant many times for not understand how this isn't a contradiction.
If it is me being stupid I'd love someone to explain why.

Some non Muslims have even argued the point that yes it is a contradiction but it doesn't necessarily mean anything, which again I would accept if this was a letter from your uncle Bob or even from any other human on earth.
But this is supposed to be from God, this is a being who is supposed to be more intelligent that the best group of lawyers and English professors combined.
And the rule which the quran is talking about is no minor thing, this is a rule that if broken could result in someone roasting for eternity.
So why is god forgetting to add clauses and conditions? Why do other people have to add these in for him later because he forgot to mention them?

Other excuses for this verse have been word games.

One muslim asked me if there was a rule that I never give money to homeless people but I do sponsor them if they promise to stop any drink or drugs they are taking is that a contradiction?
My reply to that is a simple one, if I made a rule to not give homeless people money but then said I would sponsor them if they gave up drink or drugs it would be a contradiction if the sponsoring involved me giving the homeless person money via the sponsoring I was doing, if the sponsoring involved a less direct method of financial support for the homeless person then no it wouldn't be a contradiction.
This type of word play makes no difference to the quran verse, it's just word games replacing the words "Give money to" with "Sponsor" And it doesn't work to compare this with what the quran says about forgiveness.

Additionally this could be seen as a contradiction within the quran since god does allude in the quran to being all forgiving and merciful and on some verses says he forgives all the sins, but I'm not sure if that's all sins for everybody.
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29-08-2014, 11:33 PM
RE: Contradiction in the Quran
I can dismiss islam like this:

Pork is the second healthiest meat, but the quran says pork is bad. As it shows the quran is wrong because pork is good.

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30-08-2014, 12:00 AM
RE: Contradiction in the Quran
(29-08-2014 11:33 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  ... the quran says pork is bad ...
If god didn't want us to eat pork why did he make pigs out of meat?
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30-08-2014, 12:21 AM
RE: Contradiction in the Quran
(29-08-2014 11:24 PM)PaulPablo Wrote:  ... has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin ...
The worst of the worst sins are the fabricated ones, especially if fabricated with inferior materials and careless workmanship. A sin that can't hold up under various applied stresses is an affront. Settling for pre-fabricated sins made overseas to escape labor costs is often a greater sin than the sins themselves, particularly if bought in wholesale lots. No one should ever attempt to build a sin without proper training and equipment.

Besides, fabricating a sin is pointless with sins of every conceivable description in almost engulfing abundance everywhere, fully formed and ripe and within arm's reach picked out of thin air, absolutely free, take as many as you want. Most of the time it's more a matter of NOT winding up with an armful, they're so numerous. When the holy book says only a fool would fabricate a sin, it's talking sense.
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30-08-2014, 12:39 AM
RE: Contradiction in the Quran
(30-08-2014 12:00 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 11:33 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  ... the quran says pork is bad ...
If god didn't want us to eat pork why did he make pigs out of meat?

For the same reason he placed us on the small outside surface of a ball of rock, whose primary light source is a million+ kilometer diameter sized Hydrogen fusion reactor, which just so happens to also give us skin cancer.

Because god is love?

Skin cancer helps build character?

Fuck that...

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