Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
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05-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Question Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
This is my first post. I tried to search the forum to find a thread on this topic but couldn't find it anywhere.

I am in the midst of debating with some Christian friends regarding biblical contradictions. In the midst of discussion they are able to easily disregard them as "God knows better than us" or "we aren't supposed to know everything" (which I am sure we have all heard), but then they default to saying that the contradictions only deal with non-essential details and that the essentials of Christianity are still true (virgin birth, crucifixion, resurrection, etc.).

Regardless of how I (or you) may feel about this backward argument, is anyone aware of any contradictions/problems within essential doctrines/creeds to counter this argument? I would love to fight back with scriptures as it would be most effective.

I am sorry if this was addressed elsewhere, and if it is please guide me that way. I am excited to be a part of the TTA community!

Thanks!

Zach
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05-09-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
(05-09-2013 11:39 AM)zachzachzachzach Wrote:  I am in the midst of debating with some Christian friends regarding biblical contradictions. In the midst of discussion they are able to easily disregard them as "God knows better than us" or "we aren't supposed to know everything" (which I am sure we have all heard), but then they default to saying that the contradictions only deal with non-essential details and that the essentials of Christianity are still true (virgin birth, crucifixion, resurrection, etc.).

These are the questions that I like to ask. Don't expect any reasonable answers from theists!

If the essentials are still true, why are there contradictions among the "eyewitness accounts"? Who was at the tomb? What did they find in the tomb?
If resurrection is so special, why are there multiple resurrections in the bible of non-messiah persons?
Why did an omnipotent god "have" to sacrifice himself/his son? Why would a god "have" to follow a ritual at all in a universe he created?
Are resurrection and virgin birth exclusive to Christianity? If not, why believe one written account and not another?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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05-09-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
Try these:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/r...-the-bible

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05-09-2013, 12:38 PM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2013 12:41 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
(05-09-2013 11:39 AM)zachzachzachzach Wrote:  This is my first post. I tried to search the forum to find a thread on this topic but couldn't find it anywhere.

I am in the midst of debating with some Christian friends regarding biblical contradictions. In the midst of discussion they are able to easily disregard them as "God knows better than us" or "we aren't supposed to know everything" (which I am sure we have all heard), but then they default to saying that the contradictions only deal with non-essential details and that the essentials of Christianity are still true (virgin birth, crucifixion, resurrection, etc.).

Regardless of how I (or you) may feel about this backward argument, is anyone aware of any contradictions/problems within essential doctrines/creeds to counter this argument? I would love to fight back with scriptures as it would be most effective.

I am sorry if this was addressed elsewhere, and if it is please guide me that way. I am excited to be a part of the TTA community!

Thanks!

Zach

Zach^4
They weren't written with "argumentation" specifically in mind, (as they are too long, nerdy, and involved), but there are things in the Resource Library, (scroll down to post # 3), which I put in from other places, that deal with some of these subjects. The Virgin Birth article, and Salvation, Mythic Origins are ok. I need to add (and complete) my still incomplete Resurrection piece.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ce-Library

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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05-09-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
(05-09-2013 12:13 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  These are the questions that I like to ask. Don't expect any reasonable answers from theists!

If the essentials are still true, why are there contradictions among the "eyewitness accounts"? Who was at the tomb? What did they find in the tomb?
If resurrection is so special, why are there multiple resurrections in the bible of non-messiah persons?
Why did an omnipotent god "have" to sacrifice himself/his son? Why would a god "have" to follow a ritual at all in a universe he created?
Are resurrection and virgin birth exclusive to Christianity? If not, why believe one written account and not another?

They are able to disregard what color Jesus' robe was or who was at the tomb and differences between eyewitness accounts and how Judas died, etc. but they always say that Jesus died and then resurrected and that is the basis of their belief. What I am really looking for is something concrete having to deal with their basic beliefs of the trinity, death, resurrection, ascension without just calling it a fairytale and turning the conversation into something crazy. I am not aggressive, but I pride myself in knowing their bible more than they do. This is one topic that I haven't been able to really find anything on.



(05-09-2013 12:30 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Try these:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/r...-the-bible

These are some of the contradictions that I have been discussing with my friends. The thing is, they get into the whole "original language" argument... I typically go there with them and look at the Hebrew/Greek and show them that sometimes they can justify their arugment this way, but not most of the time. Again, they can somehow overlook this stuff and say that Jesus was a fulfilled prophecy and minor details don't effect the whole of the story.




Thanks for your input so far Smile
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05-09-2013, 12:46 PM
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
(05-09-2013 11:39 AM)zachzachzachzach Wrote:  This is my first post. I tried to search the forum to find a thread on this topic but couldn't find it anywhere.

I am in the midst of debating with some Christian friends regarding biblical contradictions. In the midst of discussion they are able to easily disregard them as "God knows better than us" or "we aren't supposed to know everything" (which I am sure we have all heard), but then they default to saying that the contradictions only deal with non-essential details and that the essentials of Christianity are still true (virgin birth, crucifixion, resurrection, etc.).

Regardless of how I (or you) may feel about this backward argument, is anyone aware of any contradictions/problems within essential doctrines/creeds to counter this argument? I would love to fight back with scriptures as it would be most effective.

I am sorry if this was addressed elsewhere, and if it is please guide me that way. I am excited to be a part of the TTA community!

Thanks!

Zach

I love when Christians say "God knows better than us" or "we aren't supposed to know everything" because I like to come back with "Why would a loving God expect us to believe something that our minds can't grasp? And he punishes us for not grasping it. Wouldn't that be comparable to punishing a newborn for not being able to walk?" Makes no sense.

"Most people are other people.
Their thoughts are someone else's opinions,
their lives a mimicry,
their passions a quotation."
-Oscar Wilde
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05-09-2013, 12:49 PM
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
(05-09-2013 12:38 PM)zachzachzachzach Wrote:  ...
Jesus was a fulfilled prophecy
...

Pretty easy to fulfill prophecy when writing fan fiction.

Was that a prophecy? Yes? Ok, let's have Jesus from Nazareth and Bethlehem.

Next? Let's have him over here stealing donkeys.

Etc. etc.

What about Jesus's own promise? Return with a lifetime?
Did we miss him because he came as a thief in the night all tippy-toe like?

Ohmy

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05-09-2013, 12:52 PM
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
(05-09-2013 12:49 PM)DLJ Wrote:  What about Jesus's own promise? Return with a lifetime?
Did we miss him because he came as a thief in the night all tippy-toe like?

Ohmy

HAHA I totally get it and understand. We all know that arguments like this do not work against theists. I was really hoping for some knowledge that would strike some deep blows quickly against the generic responses that are given.
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05-09-2013, 12:54 PM
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?
(05-09-2013 12:49 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(05-09-2013 12:38 PM)zachzachzachzach Wrote:  ...
Jesus was a fulfilled prophecy
...

Pretty easy to fulfill prophecy when writing fan fiction.

Was that a prophecy? Yes? Ok, let's have Jesus from Nazareth and Bethlehem.

Next? Let's have him over here stealing donkeys.

Etc. etc.

What about Jesus's own promise? Return with a lifetime?
Did we miss him because he came as a thief in the night all tippy-toe like?

Ohmy

Step one...come up with something you want seen as a prophecy.

Step two...write the prequel to step one.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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05-09-2013, 01:01 PM
RE: Contradictions and Problems with Essential Christian Doctrine?

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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