Contradictory Beliefs
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19-02-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(18-02-2014 09:11 PM)southernbelle Wrote:  I don't get how the concept of free will and God's plan doesn't convince theists that there are holes in their beliefs. A friend of mine was explaining that his religion doesn't believe in predestination because it means that God has already condemned people to hell, but that he knows what will happen because duh he's god, but then again he has a plan for everything. Shouldn't those two ideas be contradictory?

There's so many beliefs that contradict each other that theists have. The Bible was dictated word for word by God, except for the errors. Any other contradictory beliefs you've come across?

IndianAtheist hit the nail on the head with cognitive dissonance. Meremortal also is correct that Calvinists actually admit that you can't have free will and omnipotence, double down on the whole thing and assume that human choice has no bearing on who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. It's creepy, but it's logically consistent with the things they say about YHWH, so there's that.
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19-02-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
Why else is the bible full of rules? If we were not free to do as we wished we would not need commandments, or the infinite wisdom of Leviticus. Tongue

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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19-02-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(18-02-2014 10:25 PM)Drich Wrote:  In this sense we have a choice or will that by 'God's plan' has been purchased for us by Christ on the cross. Even so we are not 'free' to do what ever we 'will.'
Normally when you pay for something, there is someone that benefits e.g. you pay for an apple, the storekeeper receives money and is happy, then he gives us the apple in return for the money.

Who recieved benefit from Christ's death was it the Soul Collector? And what was it that the Soul Collector gave back in return for this soul?
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19-02-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(18-02-2014 09:11 PM)southernbelle Wrote:  I don't get how the concept of free will and God's plan doesn't convince theists that there are holes in their beliefs. A friend of mine was explaining that his religion doesn't believe in predestination because it means that God has already condemned people to hell, but that he knows what will happen because duh he's god, but then again he has a plan for everything. Shouldn't those two ideas be contradictory?

There's so many beliefs that contradict each other that theists have. The Bible was dictated word for word by God, except for the errors. Any other contradictory beliefs you've come across?

It's very simply contradiction really. If eating apple is a crime and god knows I will eat apple he will still punish me because I "choose" to eat the apple.
Even if the choice is not free it's still a choice. Fucked up but whatever.
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19-02-2014, 12:05 PM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(19-02-2014 11:57 AM)donotwant Wrote:  It's very simply contradiction really. If eating apple is a crime and god knows I will eat apple he will still punish me because I "choose" to eat the apple.
Even if the choice is not free it's still a choice. Fucked up but whatever.
Why'd the fucker put an apple tree in the garden of Eden surely if he knew what the future holds he would have put a brussel sprout tree and given it thorns and make it stink and then he would have given the fruit a hard casing like a coconut and then hidden it at the south pole, made it an underwater tree that grows only miles under water.

Why did he create a woman that could sway Adam into eating the apple? Why did he create a talking snake that could convince Eve to ask Adam to eat the apple?
He could see the future so he knew what it would take to get Adam to eat the apple. Seems like he went to extreme measures to load the dice. Adam didn't have a chance.

It stinks of a setup and wouldn't hold water in any court on Earth.
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19-02-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(19-02-2014 12:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(19-02-2014 11:57 AM)donotwant Wrote:  It's very simply contradiction really. If eating apple is a crime and god knows I will eat apple he will still punish me because I "choose" to eat the apple.
Even if the choice is not free it's still a choice. Fucked up but whatever.
Why'd the fucker put an apple tree in the garden of Eden surely if he knew what the future holds he would have put a brussel sprout tree and given it thorns and make it stink and then he would have given the fruit a hard casing like a coconut and then hidden it at the south pole, made it an underwater tree that grows only miles under water.

Why did he create a woman that could sway Adam into eating the apple? Why did he create a talking snake that could convince Eve to ask Adam to eat the apple?
He could see the future so he knew what it would take to get Adam to eat the apple. Seems like he went to extreme measures to load the dice. Adam didn't have a chance.

It stinks of a setup and wouldn't hold water in any court on Earth.

You said something people were complaining about for 2000 years. Nothing new.
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19-02-2014, 12:07 PM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(19-02-2014 12:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(19-02-2014 11:57 AM)donotwant Wrote:  It's very simply contradiction really. If eating apple is a crime and god knows I will eat apple he will still punish me because I "choose" to eat the apple.
Even if the choice is not free it's still a choice. Fucked up but whatever.
Why'd the fucker put an apple tree in the garden of Eden surely if he knew what the future holds he would have put a brussel sprout tree and given it thorns and make it stink and then he would have given the fruit a hard casing like a coconut and then hidden it at the south pole, made it an underwater tree that grows only miles under water.

Why did he create a woman that could sway Adam into eating the apple? Why did he create a talking snake that could convince Eve to ask Adam to eat the apple?
He could see the future so he knew what it would take to get Adam to eat the apple. Seems like he went to extreme measures to load the dice. Adam didn't have a chance.

It stinks of a setup and wouldn't hold water in any court on Earth.

Adam was a wuss! Didn't he get the 'Just say no!" program at school?


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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19-02-2014, 12:10 PM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(19-02-2014 12:07 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(19-02-2014 12:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Why'd the fucker put an apple tree in the garden of Eden surely if he knew what the future holds he would have put a brussel sprout tree and given it thorns and make it stink and then he would have given the fruit a hard casing like a coconut and then hidden it at the south pole, made it an underwater tree that grows only miles under water.

Why did he create a woman that could sway Adam into eating the apple? Why did he create a talking snake that could convince Eve to ask Adam to eat the apple?
He could see the future so he knew what it would take to get Adam to eat the apple. Seems like he went to extreme measures to load the dice. Adam didn't have a chance.

It stinks of a setup and wouldn't hold water in any court on Earth.

Adam was a wuss! Didn't he get the 'Just say no!" program at school?

Even if god did explain to adam what would actually happen if he would eat the apple why should I suffer because of it?
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19-02-2014, 12:24 PM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(19-02-2014 12:07 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  Adam was a wuss! Didn't he get the 'Just say no!" program at school?
He wanted to get laid right?
An Eve was the the last woman on Earth.
Poor guy didn't have much choice.
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19-02-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: Contradictory Beliefs
(19-02-2014 12:10 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Even if god did explain to adam what would actually happen if he would eat the apple why should I suffer because of it?
Ummmmm,

Ahh,


<scratches head>


(now what was it they said at Sunday school?)
<employ robotic voice>
We are all born with the stain of sin, and Jesus graciously killed himself so we could be redeemed. We owe it to Jesus to accept him into our lives, give church 10% of our money and go around convincing others to do the same.
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