Controversial Message From the Pope
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21-01-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 06:35 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:31 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I posted the video for you, Jason. I know some people don't like the links Big Grin

On the top of the post, you can see a little tv looking thing. Click on that and scroll to you tube or wherever the clip is from. Paste the link in the url--but delete the http:// you see in their first.



I posted it using the tapatalk app. I don't think it has that feature. If it does, I have not figured it out yet. But thank you. I really appreciate it.

Just surround the URL with [ video=youtube] URL [ /video] (leave out the spaces)

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21-01-2016, 07:16 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 07:02 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:39 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think the Vatican is also reaching out to atheists also. Pope Francis gave a speech and basically said that non-believers can be saved as long as they follow their conscience.

He said they can be saved as long as they become Catholics, he just kind of glossed over that little detail.

As far as the video goes, I'm fine with the idea of not sweating the details and trying to look at the things everybody has in common but I'd expect that video to be a failure. Believers are wrapped up in thousands of years of history telling them that their beliefs are true and other beliefs are blasphemous and that people who believe differently are tools of Satan (or however their specific religion frames it). For atheists, "we are all children of god" is an invalid starting point. That's a conclusion being offered without evidence, not a premise to begin trying to work from.
Yeah, I never actually listened to the entire speech. Only caught the media aftermath. But you know how the media can be. Eh..
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21-01-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 07:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:35 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I posted it using the tapatalk app. I don't think it has that feature. If it does, I have not figured it out yet. But thank you. I really appreciate it.

Just surround the URL with [ video=youtube] URL [ /video] (leave out the spaces)
Thanks. Made a note.
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21-01-2016, 07:19 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 07:02 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:39 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think the Vatican is also reaching out to atheists also. Pope Francis gave a speech and basically said that non-believers can be saved as long as they follow their conscience.

He said they can be saved as long as they become Catholics, he just kind of glossed over that little detail.

As far as the video goes, I'm fine with the idea of not sweating the details and trying to look at the things everybody has in common but I'd expect that video to be a failure. Believers are wrapped up in thousands of years of history telling them that their beliefs are true and other beliefs are blasphemous and that people who believe differently are tools of Satan (or however their specific religion frames it). For atheists, "we are all children of god" is an invalid starting point. That's a conclusion being offered without evidence, not a premise to begin trying to work from.
Fundies are calling it the start of the "one world religion " foretold in revelation.
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21-01-2016, 07:23 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
I'm just glad he doesn't live in the papal apartments, (but in a Jesuit residence surrounded by people so it's harder to get to him with poison or whatever). They murdered JPI for less.

He also said the Jews were "our (ie Christians) elder brothers". I'm sure there are Curia members shitting bricks as they sip wine in their Roman villas, dressed in scarlet dresses over this hick from the sticks of Argentina.

I guess his attitudes are a back door attack on dogmatism. So yeah, I'm not a fan of "celebrity worship", and it will take decades to see if what he's doing has any real effect. It could easily be all undone in 6 months by another Benedict. I'll wait and see.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-01-2016, 07:36 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 07:02 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:39 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think the Vatican is also reaching out to atheists also. Pope Francis gave a speech and basically said that non-believers can be saved as long as they follow their conscience.

He said they can be saved as long as they become Catholics, he just kind of glossed over that little detail.

As far as the video goes, I'm fine with the idea of not sweating the details and trying to look at the things everybody has in common but I'd expect that video to be a failure. Believers are wrapped up in thousands of years of history telling them that their beliefs are true and other beliefs are blasphemous and that people who believe differently are tools of Satan (or however their specific religion frames it). For atheists, "we are all children of god" is an invalid starting point. That's a conclusion being offered without evidence, not a premise to begin trying to work from.

No he reiterated a view already accepted by the Second Vatican Council, expressed here in Karl Rahner's idea of an Anonymous Christian:

"Anonymous Christianity means that a person lives in the grace of God and attains salvation outside of explicitly constituted Christianity — Let us say, a Buddhist monk — who, because he follows his conscience, attains salvation and lives in the grace of God; of him I must say that he is an anonymous Christian; if not, I would have to presuppose that there is a genuine path to salvation that really attains that goal, but that simply has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. But I cannot do that. And so, if I hold if everyone depends upon Jesus Christ for salvation, and if at the same time I hold that many live in the world who have not expressly recognized Jesus Christ, then there remains in my opinion nothing else but to take up this postulate of an anonymous Christianity. [4]

According to Rahner, a person could explicitly deny Christianity, but in reality "existentially is committed to those values which for the Christian are concretized in God."[1]" -wikipedia

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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21-01-2016, 07:44 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 07:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 07:02 AM)unfogged Wrote:  He said they can be saved as long as they become Catholics, he just kind of glossed over that little detail.

As far as the video goes, I'm fine with the idea of not sweating the details and trying to look at the things everybody has in common but I'd expect that video to be a failure. Believers are wrapped up in thousands of years of history telling them that their beliefs are true and other beliefs are blasphemous and that people who believe differently are tools of Satan (or however their specific religion frames it). For atheists, "we are all children of god" is an invalid starting point. That's a conclusion being offered without evidence, not a premise to begin trying to work from.

No he reiterated a view already accepted by the Second Vatican Council, expressed here in Karl Rahner's idea of an Anonymous Christian:

Everything this Pope has said is merely stating already accepted doctrine & concepts.

To think it is otherwise isn't really to say it's the fault of those believing it... afterall they literally have hired a former foxnews spin guy to be their head of press for the Vatican. He's clearly good at the job of marketing the pope as this supposedly new liberal agenda pushing man with open arms and loving hugs.

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21-01-2016, 08:01 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 06:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:23 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  This Video has been a very Controversial topic among christian. I am curious as to what atheist think about it. Do you think it is a good idea?

https://youtu.be/-6FfTxwTX34

Which? Prayer? No, that's just magical thinking.

Trying to get along with each other? Yes, that's an obviously good idea.

However, summary execution of fundamentalists of all religions would be more effective.

Fuck off. No. The idea of "summary execution" is barbaric. Even outside the issue of religion, you don't simply arrest someone, haul them off and murder them just because they say horrible things.

I don't care if you are the most vile bigot, unless you have directly advocated for violence or committed an act of violence, nobody has the right to make summery arrest much less execution. That is fucking sick, that is what North Korea does, and Islamic theocracies do. I wont even put up with atheists suggesting that.

We have courts and trials for a reason, so we don't end up with mob rule. NO AND FUCK YOU.

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21-01-2016, 08:04 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 08:01 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  Which? Prayer? No, that's just magical thinking.

Trying to get along with each other? Yes, that's an obviously good idea.

However, summary execution of fundamentalists of all religions would be more effective.

Fuck off. No. The idea of "summary execution" is barbaric. Even outside the issue of religion, you don't simply arrest someone, haul them off and murder them just because they say horrible things.

I don't care if you are the most vile bigot, unless you have directly advocated for violence or committed an act of violence, nobody has the right to make summery arrest much less execution. That is fucking sick, that is what North Korea does, and Islamic theocracies do. I wont even put up with atheists suggesting that.

We have courts and trials for a reason, so we don't end up with mob rule. NO AND FUCK YOU.

Get a grip. And a sense of humor. Drinking Beverage

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21-01-2016, 08:04 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 07:44 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 07:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No he reiterated a view already accepted by the Second Vatican Council, expressed here in Karl Rahner's idea of an Anonymous Christian:

Everything this Pope has said is merely stating already accepted doctrine & concepts.

To think it is otherwise isn't really to say it's the fault of those believing it... afterall they literally have hired a former foxnews spin guy to be their head of press for the Vatican. He's clearly good at the job of marketing the pope as this supposedly new liberal agenda pushing man with open arms and loving hugs.

I'm not sure who you're referring to, Federico Lombardi? Whose been the head of press since Ratzinger, but clearly didn't do him many favors. Nor do I know what the fox news connection is supposed to be here?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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