Controversial Message From the Pope
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21-01-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 09:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:39 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think the Vatican is also reaching out to atheists also. Pope Francis gave a speech and basically said that non-believers can be saved as long as they follow their conscience.

He can wander around the world dispensing salvation to whomever he pleases. It's meaningless theater mounted so that he can continue managing the Church's main enterprise, raising obscene amounts of money.

I'll pay attention when he starts turning over molesting priests to civil authority. Until then, he's just another asshole in a funny hat.

I'm skeptical of the boyo, sure, but... this particular message I think is an excellent one and one that I would expect a leader to give. Yes, he's not sorting out a lot of the shit, but if he can encourage all the twits who follow one of the largest sects of Christianity to behave like human beings towards those of other faiths... it will be a major step forward and worthy of at least some recognition. The key to defusing religious violence, in my mind, is recognising that the adherents of other religions (and of none) are pretty much regular guys like everyone else.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-01-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 11:58 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'm skeptical of the boyo, sure, but... this particular message I think is an excellent one and one that I would expect a leader to give. Yes, he's not sorting out a lot of the shit, but if he can encourage all the twits who follow one of the largest sects of Christianity to behave like human beings towards those of other faiths... it will be a major step forward and worthy of at least some recognition. The key to defusing religious violence, in my mind, is recognising that the adherents of other religions (and of none) are pretty much regular guys like everyone else.

A fair point. I confess my skepticism on the depth of the impact, though. I'd rather see house-cleaning on his own part before lecturing others on cleanliness, myself.
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21-01-2016, 07:39 PM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 08:07 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  If you meant that as a joke, you did not make that clear, do a better job of that because text is not as simple to interpret intent.

(21-01-2016 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yea Chas, next time you wanna make a low bra joke about executing people, you better spell it out for us.

Goddam. Unbunch your panties. It was clearly a joke. What? You think the old fart was calling for an atheist intifada? You guys want some of my meds?

Oh, and "low bra" jokes are some of my favorites unless they involve TurkeyBurner's tiny nipples.

#sigh
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21-01-2016, 07:44 PM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(21-01-2016 09:08 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 07:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
No he reiterated a view already accepted by the Second Vatican Council, expressed here in Karl Rahner's idea of an Anonymous Christian:

"Anonymous Christianity means that a person lives in the grace of God and attains salvation outside of explicitly constituted Christianity — Let us say, a Buddhist monk — who, because he follows his conscience, attains salvation and lives in the grace of God; of him I must say that he is an anonymous Christian; if not, I would have to presuppose that there is a genuine path to salvation that really attains that goal, but that simply has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. But I cannot do that. And so, if I hold if everyone depends upon Jesus Christ for salvation, and if at the same time I hold that many live in the world who have not expressly recognized Jesus Christ, then there remains in my opinion nothing else but to take up this postulate of an anonymous Christianity. [4]

According to Rahner, a person could explicitly deny Christianity, but in reality "existentially is committed to those values which for the Christian are concretized in God."[1]" -wikipedia

So he don't know much about Buddhism, does he?

Buddhist monks ain't got no gods.

(21-01-2016 08:01 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Fuck off. No. The idea of "summary execution" is barbaric. Even outside the issue of religion, you don't simply arrest someone, haul them off and murder them just because they say horrible things.

I don't care if you are the most vile bigot, unless you have directly advocated for violence or committed an act of violence, nobody has the right to make summery arrest much less execution. That is fucking sick, that is what North Korea does, and Islamic theocracies do. I wont even put up with atheists suggesting that.

We have courts and trials for a reason, so we don't end up with mob rule. NO AND FUCK YOU.

I have to agree with Brian, here.

No way should we be executing fundamentalists of all religions!

There are many and have been many peaceful communes / villages / etc. of Jews, Zoroastrians, Jains and others who practice their religions using their 'fundamentals' harming no one.

For these, sterilisation would be sufficient.

Save the mass executions for the politicised ideologies. That would be the most effective.

Drinking Beverage

See? Now that's fucking funny.

#sigh
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22-01-2016, 09:45 PM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
So...the head of the world's most evil, most violent, most hatred inspiring organisation in the last 2000 years now has the gall to lecture us all about loving each other!

Fuck me.

And some people are stupid enough to be impressed by this?
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22-01-2016, 10:56 PM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
In the words of the inimitable George Carlin, "Fuck the Pope, Fuck the Pope, Fuck the Pope!". Oh, wait, it was "Fuck the Ump, Fuck the Ump, Fuck the Ump!". Same difference. Baseball is as big a farce as the RCC, anyway.
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22-01-2016, 11:03 PM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope


(22-01-2016 10:56 PM)Fireball Wrote:  In the words of the inimitable George Carlin, "Fuck the Pope, Fuck the Pope, Fuck the Pope!". Oh, wait, it was "Fuck the Ump, Fuck the Ump, Fuck the Ump!". Same difference. Baseball is as big a farce as the RCC, anyway.

#sigh
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22-01-2016, 11:46 PM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2016 11:49 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
So the fundamental message is... hey, all us believers, let's get together and focus on how being believers makes us loving people?

Yeah. WAY TO INCLUDE US THERE. ... also, the track record is against faith on that point. It's good that they're trying to correct course, but it also highlights that their course needed correcting in the first place.

(21-01-2016 06:39 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think the Vatican is also reaching out to atheists also. Pope Francis gave a speech and basically said that non-believers can be saved as long as they follow their conscience.

That's not how you reach out to atheists. It's like a homeopath reaching out to James Randi by offering him 20% off of his homeopathy treatments.

If you don't know who James Randi is or his views on homeopathy, here you go:



If you want to reach out to atheists as a believer, do it like this: "You know what? Forget all this arguing over whether there's a God or a savior or so on. Let's agree to disagree on that and get down to the brass tacks of how to work together to make the world a better and more peaceful place REGARDLESS of which is true."

(21-01-2016 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yea Chas, next time you wanna make a low bra joke about executing people, you better spell it out for us.

....

No.

.... just, NO.

....

The phrase is "low-brow". BROW. It originates back in the time of phrenology when it was thought the shape of one's skull indicated aspects of the mind, and in particular that the shape of the forehead was an indicator of intelligence and/or sophistication. High brows were smart and sophisticated, while low brows were simple and base.

... though I will grant that a low-bra joke is probably going to be simple and base. ((Especially if it's about executing people.))

(22-01-2016 10:56 PM)Fireball Wrote:  In the words of the inimitable George Carlin, "Fuck the Pope, Fuck the Pope, Fuck the Pope!". Oh, wait, it was "Fuck the Ump, Fuck the Ump, Fuck the Ump!". Same difference. Baseball is as big a farce as the RCC, anyway.

Nope! RCC is completely baseless!
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23-01-2016, 12:29 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(22-01-2016 10:56 PM)Fireball Wrote:  In the words of the inimitable George Carlin, "Fuck the Pope, Fuck the Pope, Fuck the Pope!". Oh, wait, it was "Fuck the Ump, Fuck the Ump, Fuck the Ump!". Same difference. Baseball is as big a farce as the RCC, anyway.




(21-01-2016 06:39 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I think the Vatican is also reaching out to atheists also. Pope Francis gave a speech and basically said that non-believers can be saved as long as they follow their conscience.
Which makes him kind of a clueless condescending asshole now don't it?

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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23-01-2016, 05:30 AM
RE: Controversial Message From the Pope
(22-01-2016 09:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  So...the head of the world's most evil, most violent, most hatred inspiring organisation in the last 2000 years now has the gall to lecture us all about loving each other!

Fuck me.

And some people are stupid enough to be impressed by this?

Baby steps old son. I wouldn't have been surprised if his message had been a lot more divisive - certainly Benedict would have never said anything like Francis said in the movie. Whether we like it or not, he speaks for and leads a huge number of people. I've felt for a long time that most of his stuff was just good PR, this particular message I feel goes a bit beyond PR and might result in a slightly *less* hatred inspiring and violent organisation.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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