Conversations with Theists/Creationists
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16-06-2009, 09:12 PM
 
Conversations with Theists/Creationists
I'll share one with you I had with a fundamentalist just now on youtube. It is bloody frustrating trying to reason with them. It makes climbing Everest twice look much easier.

Here was the conversation: (Note: you might have to decode the order since youtube's comment system isn't perfect. But I am sure you will get it. And there is some swearing by me, so I hope the forums filters is out.)

Between me, RtFusion and dropfan.

"""""""""""""""""""


dropfan195 (1 hour ago) Show Hide


"Clear evidence of transformation over millions of years"? Come on please. He was only on that island for 2 weeks and came back with that "THEORY". I would like to see something at the half weight mark,something that is half monkey and half man. And I don't mean that stupid picture they drew of how they wanted it to happen. I mean an actual being. Come on. How can you have a creation without a creator?

RtFusion (1 hour ago) Show Hide

God, on with that theory dribble. A scientific theory is a model based on FACTS that has been verified over and over again.

The Theory of Evolution is based on facts and there is no other model that fits.

vsincariuc (56 minutes ago) Show Hide

Give me ONE proven(keyword) fact of macro evolution. As some may not realize, it's the macro aspect of it that states people evolved from, basically, a rock. Give me ONE fact that proves this. Now, micro evolution would be described well by the numerous dog breeds. No problem there.

RtFusion (49 minutes ago) Show Hide


Jesus christ, not this fucking macro vs micro evolution bullshit. No wonder why humanity hasn't reached the stars yet because we are being held back by stupid creationists/theists like yourself. Holding onto idiotic, superstitious belief systems, like it was your mommy. Cuasing the rest of humanity to be chained to your fossilized thoughts of gods, heavens, and hells.

This is the 21st century, no year one.

Dimantis007 (34 minutes ago) Show Hide


........ahhhh, word. what he said O_O
peacebone2010 (1 hour ago) Show Hide

then who created your "creator"? you honestly think it's logical there's something watching us who's bigger and greater than us? earth and its species were formed from bacteria and kept evolving. that seems a lot more logical than some false god making billions of people out of fucking clay or mud or whatever.

dropfan195 (1 hour ago) Show Hide

Your knowledge is limited with things like these.The creator has always been around, just as time has.Now i ask you who made your bacteria?And why is the sun so perfectly positioned for us to live in this environment?If it were a degree closer, we would burn up, and if it were a degree further we would freeze. And it wasn't mud or clay, I suggest you read that again.Please read and understand the most controversial book in the world before you comment.Thank you.You can find this part in Genesis.

peacebone2010 (56 minutes ago) Show Hide

it's called the big bang theory.
and I'm not going to waste my time reading religious bullshit that people shouldn't be taken literally. maybe you should take a high school science class and learn the non-bias theory that makes the most sense.

dropfan195 (14 minutes ago) Show Hide

Excuse me? The big bang What? Oh wow theory, thats right. Come on. you're commenting one something you no NOTHING about. Especially if you said you're not going to waste you're time with it becausee Ive wasted plenty of time on this theoretical crap.

RtFusion (55 minutes ago) Show Hide

Genesis is meant to be poetic, not literal. To put explain something complex with something even more complex is ridiculous. There is no creator, there is no god. Nothing is fined tuned in this universe.
I'll have to stop reasoning to you because creationists/theists like yourself will cause your brains to liquefy.

Go read some science books, read up on proven scientific theories, all of them have replaced your superstitious for pretty much everything.

I reject your Bible and your gawd.

dropfan195 (20 minutes ago) Show Hide

Oh Ive read many Books on science and i have this guy's book. You need to read up on the fulfillment of bible prophecies. And once again i ask How can you have a perfect creation without a creator?

usernmes (17 minutes ago) Show Hide

perfect?are u saying humans are perfect?cuz we are far from it!u kno how easy it is for us to die or get killed?tooo easy.but wut im sayin iz who created the creator huh?and wut about the creator before that?and that?and that?u see why that doesnt work out?GOSH!!!!

dropfan195 (10 minutes ago) Show Hide

NO i meant the environment is perfect for us to live with. Like Ive said before, where was time before time? When you get that answer, please let me know and ill answer you're question about the creator of everything.

usernmes (3 minutes ago) Show Hide

humans made time duh but i aint gone waste my time given u a lesson why dont u watch sum discovery channel im pretty sure they got sumthin geez

jaggy32 (31 seconds ago) Show Hide

we weren't created that way... we were created perfect.... but things went wrong way back when that got us to this position we are in now... but we weren't created imperfect

RtFusion (9 minutes ago) Show Hide

I will cease my conversation with you because I can't penetrate your creationist ideals. Nothing is created because there is not evidence that supports this claim. Nothing is perfect, they can only be INTERPRETED as such by HUMANS.

Go look around youtube that dissects evolution and why it is true and accepted by the scientific community.

You know what? I'm just wasting my fucking keystrokes on a fucking creationist. I'm just going to stop because people like you can't be reasoned with.

RtFusion (6 minutes ago) Show Hide

In the meantime, I will worship my pink giraffe/unicorn hybrid in my garage. It's ok if you don't believe me, it's just FAITH. And faith is trust without evidence to back up that trust.

Fuck your god and your bible.

dropfan195 (1 minute ago) Show Hide

I don't do youtube when it comes looking for information for these things proving things and talking about these theories. By the way, same to your mother.

RtFusion (1 hour ago) Show Hide

I suggest you go to cdk007's channel who has video covering abiogenesis (which has been confirmed, look it up) and various topics on evolution.

Oh wait you won't because you won't listen to reason. All you have to fall back on is an ignorant, bastard, childlike god who doesn't give a fuck.

safewaysecurity (55 minutes ago) Show Hide

You are so stupid. What if god created through evolution and not through your fairytale bible huh? You don't understand the word "theory". Gravity is only a "theory". It's funny because evolution is a fact and it's evolution by natural selection that is the theory. Go learn basic biology and learn about homo-erectus and Australopithecus- forensis

jaggy32 (47 minutes ago) Show Hide

gravity is a law my man.... its explained thru theory, but its a law..... don't bug out

safewaysecurity (35 minutes ago) Show Hide

ummm... not it's a theory. We don't even know what causes gravity. We know that things with mass have gravity and bend the fabric of space-time to make a gravitational well but... we don't know what causes bodies of mass to have gravity. Some say it's dark energy but nobody knows.

dropfan195 (23 minutes ago) Show Hide

First of all, you know what i mean when i speak of evolution, you should know that I'm speaking of Darwin's Stupid book. I understand that there is some kind of evolution in humans. If God made man, that means he made "man". And once again I'm asking to show me something at the half weight mark of this"THEORY" that a monkey has transformed into a person. If you can't, then that means you're the "stupid" one sir.

""""""

this is probably my first true (or second if you count it with the meeting I had with the priest but he didn't come to me as a creationist. So . . . I won't count him. xD) conversation with a creationist. I tried to avoid it, but I couldn't, even though I know I will "lose" since this person would just be ignorant of the facts.

This reminds of one of the inspirational poster where it showed the timeline of Christianity and scientific advancement. In the dark ages, there was a dotted line for the scientific advancement bit that would have continued if it weren't for the dark ages. The solid line for the advancement goes flat and then climbs again.

It's just so frustratingly difficult to converse with these people. But we have to I guess to show how it contaminates education and scientific advancement.

(yes, I am aware that there are theists who work in the scientific field who are very important in contributing their research. Like that guy with mapping the human genome but believes in god.)

How did your conversations go with creationists/theists?

EDIT: yes, I did dissolve back to insults, but that is what I honestly think about these creationists and what I think about religion and invented gods. But I do have fellow friends who are theistic but aren't asshole or oh-so righteous about it and I accept their friendship.
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17-06-2009, 09:23 AM
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
I honestly think that these types of debates only become productive when we're not shouting (even when the opponent chooses to).

In my opinion, throwing out phrases like "All you have to fall back on is an ignorant, bastard, childlike god who doesn't give a f&$#" doesn't advance us as reasonable people.

On this forum, and in our lives, I'm convinced we'll make the most progress when we speak softly but confidently. And if the proponents of religion want to shout, let those shouts be deflected by our mountain of evidence.

-Ed

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17-06-2009, 09:44 AM
 
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(17-06-2009 09:23 AM)Editor-TheThinkingAtheist Wrote:  I honestly think that these types of debates only become productive when we're not shouting (even when the opponent chooses to).

In my opinion, throwing out phrases like "All you have to fall back on is an ignorant, bastard, childlike god who doesn't give a f&$#" doesn't advance us as reasonable people.

On this forum, and in our lives, I'm convinced we'll make the most progress when we speak softly but confidently. And if the proponents of religion want to shout, let those shouts be deflected by our mountain of evidence.

-Ed


You are indeed correct. I did let the priest talk for the majority of time I had with him. I guess it is different on the internet because there is not face to talk with. It is harder that way, at least for me, when discussing these topics. I know they are wrong, but I need to let them talk. I need to keep the advice of my former physics teacher in mind: "Don't burn their furniture.".

Hmm, I am looking forward to more videos from you, you have plenty of subs now on your youtube channel. Your first one was great.
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27-06-2009, 09:42 AM
 
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
I used to love having in depth conversations with christians and other types of theists, but these days they all start to sound the same and it gets tiring. First, they say that this is going to be a "fair" debate, you debate for about 10 mins (this is you) and then they carry the whole rest of the debate never stopping and always quoting something from the bible. Then, you prove something that they claim is true by showing that it is false, they ignore you and call you different holy names (blasphemer, heathen, satanist, etc.) and pray in front of you while leaving and claiming victory. I get tired of it because not only does this look completely stupid in my eyes, but the fact that their claim to fame is "well, god did it and that's that" while putting their fingers in their ears, singing lalalala, and walking away claiming some form of win. It doesn't matter if its some underage minor or a preacher, they all act like idiotic children with no concept of reality or any real care for it.

I believe that social Darwinism should be put into effect for them, if they surely believe that prayer heals illness, then they should not even go to a hospital, because as they claim science is the devil's work. They should pray to get better, without the use of anything that science and technology has invented. Hypocrites in pure form.
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11-07-2009, 11:36 PM
 
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(27-06-2009 09:42 AM)alchron Wrote:  they ignore you and call you different holy names (blasphemer, heathen, satanist, etc.)

My favorite is when they start calling you monkey.

For the guy above, the thing that I have found most successful in debates with creationists is a little bit of slight of hand. Normally when dealing with these people you know they are below average intelligence so you should be able to get the upper hand. Here is an example, which occasionally gets a 'creationists' to critically think:

If you have the cure for cancer, knowing that a few out of the many who get it will have a deadly reaction to it, would you share it with the world?

(this part they usually don't have a problem with saying yes of course)

What would you think of someone who had the cure, but refused to give it because of the ones that might die?

(here they usually say some version of why its wrong to withhold the cure if you have it)

Now you can interject with, in whatever form you see fit, How God has the cure and doesn't share it?

(At this point the creationist will become a little frantic in trying to rationalize how its okay for god to not share the cure, when they just said how demonstrable it was for a person with the cure to not share it.)


Regardless of the way you go about it, a little trickery like that goes a long way, normally id think that was unfair, but whatever opens the mind, frees it.
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25-08-2009, 11:15 AM
 
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
I have many screenshots of a user by the name of Zeik14 bashing science, namely the theory of the big-bang.

I'll upload the images to somewhere like imageshack for everyone to see, but I'll also take time to write it out and paste the argument between myself and Mr. Zeik Smile

(Just seen how much I'll need to type if I do so, so I may just upload the screenshots lol)

Zeik14:
Haha you atheists... Some of the highest ranked idiots on a scale larger than life... You believe that there was nothing in the beginning and nothing happened to nothing and then magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then everything rearranged itself for no reason into self replicating bits of something which then turned into the most complex system ever seen.... BRILLIANT!.... You really don't see any faults there?
(Does anyone see the epic contradiction here?
- in the beginning and nothing happened to nothing
- magically exploded <- lol
- for no reason creating everything
- You really don't see any faults there? <- Double lol)

That was what got me into the debate, just his sheer stupidity.

however, I'll now proceed to getting these images uploaded.

Here is the said image.

http://i28.tinypic.com/27yzx5j.png
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17-09-2009, 12:22 PM
 
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
Its called self preservation.

Theists are full of it, they have to be.
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02-10-2009, 11:17 AM
 
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(25-08-2009 11:15 AM)Thoth Wrote:  I have many screenshots of a user by the name of Zeik14 bashing science, namely the theory of the big-bang.

I'll upload the images to somewhere like imageshack for everyone to see, but I'll also take time to write it out and paste the argument between myself and Mr. Zeik Smile

(Just seen how much I'll need to type if I do so, so I may just upload the screenshots lol)

Zeik14:
Haha you atheists... Some of the highest ranked idiots on a scale larger than life... You believe that there was nothing in the beginning and nothing happened to nothing and then magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then everything rearranged itself for no reason into self replicating bits of something which then turned into the most complex system ever seen.... BRILLIANT!.... You really don't see any faults there?
(Does anyone see the epic contradiction here?
- in the beginning and nothing happened to nothing
- magically exploded <- lol
- for no reason creating everything
- You really don't see any faults there? <- Double lol)

That was what got me into the debate, just his sheer stupidity.

however, I'll now proceed to getting these images uploaded.

Here is the said image.

http://i28.tinypic.com/27yzx5j.png

Wow...just wow...

I have had conversations with different individual believers of different faiths, and it did come to a point where they would insult me or call me stupid/ignorant/etc for the majority of the "debate". What I usually come back to them is simply this...

"How old are you? And why are you still believing in imaginary people?"

It usually makes them mad, but the conversation shifts to them trying to prove to me that they are real, which is always good for a laugh.
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01-01-2010, 09:25 PM
 
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
I try to avoid discussions of any depth with theists. I made the mistake of trying with a coworker about a week ago, that ended with him screaming in the workplace "I didn't come from no damn fucking monkeys!" It's like trying to teach a Speak N' Spell.
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01-01-2010, 10:38 PM
 
RE: Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(01-01-2010 09:25 PM)Packilvania Wrote:  I try to avoid discussions of any depth with theists. I made the mistake of trying with a coworker about a week ago, that ended with him screaming in the workplace "I didn't come from no damn fucking monkeys!" It's like trying to teach a Speak N' Spell.

Sounds like the last place I worked at, doesn't matter what evidence you show them, they latch on to the "we came from apes" part and run with it like a mentally challenged child with a balloon.
(11-07-2009 11:36 PM)JarJarBinks Wrote:  
(27-06-2009 09:42 AM)alchron Wrote:  they ignore you and call you different holy names (blasphemer, heathen, satanist, etc.)

My favorite is when they start calling you monkey.

For the guy above, the thing that I have found most successful in debates with creationists is a little bit of slight of hand. Normally when dealing with these people you know they are below average intelligence so you should be able to get the upper hand. Here is an example, which occasionally gets a 'creationists' to critically think:

If you have the cure for cancer, knowing that a few out of the many who get it will have a deadly reaction to it, would you share it with the world?

(this part they usually don't have a problem with saying yes of course)

What would you think of someone who had the cure, but refused to give it because of the ones that might die?

(here they usually say some version of why its wrong to withhold the cure if you have it)

Now you can interject with, in whatever form you see fit, How God has the cure and doesn't share it?

(At this point the creationist will become a little frantic in trying to rationalize how its okay for god to not share the cure, when they just said how demonstrable it was for a person with the cure to not share it.)


Regardless of the way you go about it, a little trickery like that goes a long way, normally id think that was unfair, but whatever opens the mind, frees it.

There is no such thing as being unfair to a theist, they want to have the advantages on their side so why not simply stack the odds against them?
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