Conversations with a dying Creationist
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-02-2018, 09:03 AM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(01-02-2018 08:33 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(31-01-2018 10:26 AM)unfogged Wrote:  They aren't opposites. Natural selection is the process that directs evolution. The derivation of dogs from wolves is an example of artificial selection which takes the tool of natural selection and applies it with intention.

Natural selection takes place when some characteristics are eliminated so that others can be emphasized.

You make that sound like it is intentional. Natural selection takes place when individuals who are better adapted to the environment reproduce more than individuals who are less well adapted. Characteristics are eliminated and emphasized over time based on how they contribute to or detract from the ability to survive and reproduce but that is a blind process.

Quote: All of the genes found in all kinds of dogs exist in wolves. Each breed of dog retains only a small part of that genetic information. Evolution requires that organisms develop new information that isn't found in any of their ancestors.

Gene cross-over and transcription errors introduce changes in the genes and that is "new information" although "information" is a loaded term. Genes are not static bundles that are just passed along and the idea that every breed of dog has just a subset of the genes of wolves is simply wrong. They do have some of the same genes but they also have new ones that evolved as they diverged over time.

Quote:Natural selection is the opposite of evolution.

Not if you understand it. Evolution happens and natural selection is the process that filters the results of the changes and determines "winners" and "losers". Stop reading creationist dogma and read some actual science.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like unfogged's post
01-02-2018, 02:38 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(01-02-2018 08:33 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(31-01-2018 10:26 AM)unfogged Wrote:  They aren't opposites. Natural selection is the process that directs evolution. The derivation of dogs from wolves is an example of artificial selection which takes the tool of natural selection and applies it with intention.

Natural selection takes place when some characteristics are eliminated so that others can be emphasized. All of the genes found in all kinds of dogs exist in wolves. Each breed of dog retains only a small part of that genetic information. Evolution requires that organisms develop new information that isn't found in any of their ancestors. Natural selection is the opposite of evolution.

(31-01-2018 02:09 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  The very name of the theory is "Darwin's Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection".

In Darwin's time people didn't know as much about how heredity works as we do today. Gregor Mendel had performed the experiments on which that science is based but his work hadn't been widely published and Darwin probably knew nothing about it. A lot of people in Darwin's time, and perhaps Darwin himself, believed acquired characteritics could be inherited. With that level of knowledge it is understandable that natural selection and evolution could be seen as being the same thing. We have a lot more knowledge today; we have no excuse for making that mistake.

The ID god, are you sure this is the deity that you want to believe in? Because according to ID advocates Dembski and Behe, malaria adapting to become resistant to vaccinations falls within their definitions of specified complexity.

So in other words, your god is forcing malaria; and a host of other infectious diseases, to become resistant to vaccinations. Your god becomes a deliberate bio-terrorist, actively engaged in modifying viruses, bacteria, etc. to overcome vaccines that we develop so more people can be killed.

So is this your god?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheInquisition's post
01-02-2018, 04:21 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(01-02-2018 02:38 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 08:33 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Natural selection takes place when some characteristics are eliminated so that others can be emphasized. All of the genes found in all kinds of dogs exist in wolves. Each breed of dog retains only a small part of that genetic information. Evolution requires that organisms develop new information that isn't found in any of their ancestors. Natural selection is the opposite of evolution.


In Darwin's time people didn't know as much about how heredity works as we do today. Gregor Mendel had performed the experiments on which that science is based but his work hadn't been widely published and Darwin probably knew nothing about it. A lot of people in Darwin's time, and perhaps Darwin himself, believed acquired characteritics could be inherited. With that level of knowledge it is understandable that natural selection and evolution could be seen as being the same thing. We have a lot more knowledge today; we have no excuse for making that mistake.

The ID god, are you sure this is the deity that you want to believe in? Because according to ID advocates Dembski and Behe, malaria adapting to become resistant to vaccinations falls within their definitions of specified complexity.

So in other words, your god is forcing malaria; and a host of other infectious diseases, to become resistant to vaccinations. Your god becomes a deliberate bio-terrorist, actively engaged in modifying viruses, bacteria, etc. to overcome vaccines that we develop so more people can be killed.

So is this your god?

(01-02-2018 02:38 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  So in other words, your god is forcing malaria; and a host of other infectious diseases, to become resistant to vaccinations. Your god becomes a deliberate bio-terrorist...

Well, humans are all miserable sinners because one of our ancestors tripped over a tripwire in a garden thingy that god set up, and since god has the memory of an elephant and can't ever forgive and forget he sends down malaria and Bubonic Plague and cancer and tornados and earthquakes and shit because we all deserve it because of that, ya know, trip-up thingy in the garden episode. Golly-wuz, Inquisition, don't you know anything!? Facepalm

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like dancefortwo's post
01-02-2018, 04:35 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(31-01-2018 09:47 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(30-01-2018 12:32 PM)grejen Wrote:  (though, oddly, he accepts that dogs have evolved from wolves)

Evolution and natural selection are not the same thing; in fact they are just the opposite.

https://answersingenesis.org/natural-sel...evolution/

The real disgreement between creationists and evolutionist isn't about science but about history. Creationists believe the world was created by God. Evolutionists believe it developed over a long period of time by natural events. If you hold the second belief you must believe in evolution.

There is one response to your friend that no one has mentioned in this thread. Why don't you listen to him, think about what he has said, and consider the possibility that he might be right?

Always thought you don't understand evolution. Thanks for proving it. It IS about science. DNA proves it. The problem is you don't know anything about that either.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
01-02-2018, 05:06 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(01-02-2018 04:21 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Well, humans are all miserable sinners because one of our ancestors tripped over a tripwire in a garden thingy that god set up, and since god has the memory of an elephant and can't ever forgive and forget he sends down malaria and Bubonic Plague and cancer and tornados and earthquakes and shit because we all deserve it because of that, ya know, trip-up thingy in the garden episode. Golly-wuz, Inquisition, don't you know anything!?

But don't forget,...... he LOVES you. Rolleyes

No gods necessary.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-02-2018, 06:16 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(01-02-2018 05:06 PM)brunumb Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 04:21 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Well, humans are all miserable sinners because one of our ancestors tripped over a tripwire in a garden thingy that god set up, and since god has the memory of an elephant and can't ever forgive and forget he sends down malaria and Bubonic Plague and cancer and tornados and earthquakes and shit because we all deserve it because of that, ya know, trip-up thingy in the garden episode. Golly-wuz, Inquisition, don't you know anything!?

But don't forget,...... he LOVES you. Rolleyes

Hello, Stockholm? Your syndrome is calling.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like dancefortwo's post
01-02-2018, 07:29 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(01-02-2018 06:16 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Hello, Stockholm? Your syndrome is calling.

I tend to see God as a victim of Munchausen by proxy syndrome. He inflicts all these terrible miseries on us and then expects us to show profound gratitude and worship when he provides a cure. Dodgy

No gods necessary.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like brunumb's post
01-02-2018, 07:57 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
OP, it sounds to me like you have been a dear friend, and are not baiting him, and he is guiding the direction of these conversations.
Anyone would be so lucky to have a friend like you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes skyking's post
02-02-2018, 08:10 AM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(01-02-2018 04:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  DNA proves it.

DNA proves God exists. It is too complex to have come into existence by chance.

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.
Charles Darwin
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-02-2018, 08:44 AM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
@ theophilus - dude, stop hijacking a thread asking for personal advice and turning it into an evolution discussion. Go start you own thread.

@ grejen - only you know the relationship you have with your friend and what he needs from you. You come across as a thoughtful and caring person, exactly what your buddy needs. Talk, laugh, commiserate and shoot the shit...give him as much of your time as you can for as long as he wants. In the end you’ll both be richer for it.
It’s a good thing you guys chose this topic to discuss, you could have picked something much more contentious to argue about like who’s better, the Patriots or the Eagles. Smile

Keep doing what you’re doing.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Full Circle's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: