Conversations with a dying Creationist
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06-02-2018, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2018 11:47 AM by kim.)
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(01-02-2018 08:33 AM)theophilus Wrote:  ----
Evolution requires that organisms develop new information that isn't found in any of their ancestors.
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THAT single statement tells the entire world that you, Theophilus have no understanding of evolution.

Theo, if you are a young adult, I implore you to go to a public school science teacher or accredited university professor and explain that you do not understand evolution but, sincerely want to learn.

There is no shame in not having been taught something properly. Ignorance in a child is not self inflicted but learned from & reinforced by adults.

If you are an adult, Theo - I advise you to do the same. Seek to understand fully what you are trying to talk about. No one wants to talk to someone who continually talks out their ass. It is never too late to learn. Shy
***

Also, I apologise for derailing this thread - it isn't about evolution or Theo's ignorance - it's about personal discussions with a friend who may not have a lot of time left.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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07-02-2018, 08:41 AM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(06-02-2018 11:07 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Mutation provides genetical changes (thats the random part, for all mentally challenged reading this), natural selection filters out (thats the non-random part, because environment systematically filters out how many individuals with a certain mutation "a" survive and how many with mutation "b"). Random mutation in combination with natural selection is called "evolution". What is so difficult about this concept that it has to be explained literally a gazzillion times and you still (pretend to) dont get it? Consider

I understand what you are saying. Many characteristics are too complex to have come gradually into existence through random mutations. Read my signature.

(06-02-2018 11:42 AM)kim Wrote:  Also, I apologise for derailing this thread - it isn't about evolution or Theo's ignorance - it's about personal discussions with a friend who may not have a lot of time left.

It sounds to me as if this friend is ready to die. For him death will be a transition to a new and better life. It is the rest of you that I am concerned about.

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.
Charles Darwin
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07-02-2018, 11:01 AM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(07-02-2018 08:41 AM)theophilus Wrote:  I understand what you are saying.

Obviously, you don't or you would not have then said...

Quote:Many characteristics are too complex to have come gradually into existence through random mutations.

The scientists who spend their careers on this and who actually understand how it works disagree with you. You are speaking from a position of ignorance.

Quote:It sounds to me as if this friend is ready to die. For him death will be a transition to a new and better life. It is the rest of you that I am concerned about.

That may be the most odious part of your beliefs. You throw away the one life that you actually know you have on wishful thinking and prepping for death. You can keep your death cult and your concerns to yourself. It's disgusting.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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07-02-2018, 11:02 AM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
Nice try of deflection, but you failed.

Your original claim was:
Quote:Natural selection determines which genes survive. It provides no explanation as to how those genes came to exist in the first place and it can't provide any genetic information that didn't already exist. It has nothing whatever to do with evolution.
Do you still maintain this claim?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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07-02-2018, 12:18 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(07-02-2018 11:01 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(07-02-2018 08:41 AM)theophilus Wrote:  It sounds to me as if this friend is ready to die. For him death will be a transition to a new and better life. It is the rest of you that I am concerned about.

That may be the most odious part of your beliefs. You throw away the one life that you actually know you have on wishful thinking and prepping for death. You can keep your death cult and your concerns to yourself. It's disgusting.

Yes, it's sad to know that anyone - even Theo - sides with ISL and their death cult & doomed world culture. No

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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07-02-2018, 08:16 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(30-01-2018 12:32 PM)grejen Wrote:  I do have a nagging concern: He has a serious cancer (not to mention he's lost his wife to a different form of it). Exactly what am I if I drive him, even inadvertently, to nihilism in a bad way? How will this affect him physically? What might it do to him mentally? I'm not arguing with a person in full health that I expect might have decades of happy life freed from belief in myths and miracles. His belief has helped him deal with loss I cannot imagine. He believes his wife is 'in a better place' and 'with Jesus'. I ask myself if I really want to rip that from him.

First, it sounds like he wants and needs to talk. It's unlikely that you'd be having these conversations otherwise. You know one another well enough to be comfortable discussing this and that's fairly rare. I expect that you'll notice if he actually starts getting uncomfortable.

Second, YEC and Christianity are very much not the same thing. It's possible that he could lose faith entirely if made to doubt YEC but that's not the direction it sounds like you're going with these discussions.

I'd be interested in one question that I've rarely gotten a good answer for. Why do they care how the flesh evolved? The flesh is weak and at the end it rots in the ground. Nobody is suggesting that their immortal soul evolved and last I checked that was the bit that mattered.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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12-02-2018, 06:47 PM
RE: Conversations with a dying Creationist
(30-01-2018 12:32 PM)grejen Wrote:  Recently he started with: "Who has more faith, me in God? Or you, in evolution? OK we can guess where he's getting this stuff eh? The pause in this latest conversation ended up with me noting that he puts a lot of stock in the 'eyewitness accounts', as he calls them, of the Bible when he hasn't met any of these eyewitnesses. He then notes that since I haven't met Darwin, I should be skeptical of his claims for the same reason. Essentially his argument is that no one has witnessed a species created from variances over time (though, oddly, he accepts that dogs have evolved from wolves) so it can't be true, but there were eyewitnesses of the resurrection of Jesus so that has to have really happened. Blink Facepalm Shocking - Fun with emoticons - Blush

This kind of idoitic "logic" makes my head spin.

If you even grant him this, then he's saying at best neither of you can prove anything, so his all powerful Jebus is no better than a dude from the 1800s.

But you can't grant him this because people WERE skeptical of his claims and they were tested and have been added to/improved upon. Also, Darwin never claimed to be any kind of god nor would he banish you to eternal suffering if you didn't buy what he was selling.
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