Cool boys' club
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01-01-2014, 10:42 AM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2014 10:54 AM by HU.Junyuan.)
Smile Cool boys' club
I am in the cool boys' club. Tongue

This just uploaded video clip is made by a mysterious studio called "On the Way to Resuscitation". Some say it is a government or party propaganda branch, yet there has never been any direct evidence publicly presented. To me, it seems a little higher above typical bureaucrats' abilities, and hardly their style ...

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Mod, if you think this should go to "Politics", just move it. OK for me. Yet I kinda like it here more.

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01-01-2014, 10:55 AM
RE: Cool boys' club
Another by the same group:



?
Wink

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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01-01-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: Cool boys' club
Nice propaganda films, tho I will say the chinese one is a tad less BS than the N. Korean one I saw a few days ago... I might add quite a bit shorter too.

In the last couple of years, I've done quite a bit of business with the Chinese and really had to learn how to think like they do, business with them is nothing like the western model. It is however very tiring and frustrating when there are issues, to go along with the game.
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01-01-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Cool boys' club
(01-01-2014 11:33 AM)War Horse Wrote:  Nice propaganda films, tho I will say the chinese one is a tad less BS than the N. Korean one I saw a few days ago... I might add quite a bit shorter too.

In the last couple of years, I've done quite a bit of business with the Chinese and really had to learn how to think like they do, business with them is nothing like the western model. It is however very tiring and frustrating when there are issues, to go along with the game.

Is there any change ? Is it getting easier or harder ? Do you feel like sharing your experience with one such typical issue ?

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01-01-2014, 12:16 PM
RE: Cool boys' club
(01-01-2014 11:39 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  
(01-01-2014 11:33 AM)War Horse Wrote:  Nice propaganda films, tho I will say the chinese one is a tad less BS than the N. Korean one I saw a few days ago... I might add quite a bit shorter too.

In the last couple of years, I've done quite a bit of business with the Chinese and really had to learn how to think like they do, business with them is nothing like the western model. It is however very tiring and frustrating when there are issues, to go along with the game.

Is there any change ? Is it getting easier or harder ? Do you feel like sharing your experience with one such typical issue ?

I pretty much stopped doing business with China 3-4 months ago. It had nothing to do with them, but more a illness in my family.

All the business I did there was with the RC (helicopters) market, which has a fairly high product failure rate. Providing proof of failures/damage, etc., is a series of jumping through hoops and miscommunications, and a definite language barrier.

The part I noticed most was that contratcts and such didnt hold much water in their eyes, however "face" was of great importance to most all of them, and they need to be convinced of the same from us in the west . It seems they almost enjoy the back and forth argueing and debates to see if they can get you to lose your cool.

It gets a bit frustrating when things dont go smooth from start to fininsh.

Like I said, been out of it for a bit, but the last problem I had was easily handled and no problems , however that was a Austrailian company doing business from mainland China, so I was more than likely dealing with their own staff.
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01-01-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: Cool boys' club
(01-01-2014 12:16 PM)War Horse Wrote:  
(01-01-2014 11:39 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  Is there any change ? Is it getting easier or harder ? Do you feel like sharing your experience with one such typical issue ?

I pretty much stopped doing business with China 3-4 months ago. It had nothing to do with them, but more a illness in my family.

All the business I did there was with the RC (helicopters) market, which has a fairly high product failure rate. Providing proof of failures/damage, etc., is a series of jumping through hoops and miscommunications, and a definite language barrier.

The part I noticed most was that contratcts and such didnt hold much water in their eyes, however "face" was of great importance to most all of them, and they need to be convinced of the same from us in the west . It seems they almost enjoy the back and forth argueing and debates to see if they can get you to lose your cool.

It gets a bit frustrating when things dont go smooth from start to fininsh.

Like I said, been out of it for a bit, but the last problem I had was easily handled and no problems , however that was a Austrailian company doing business from mainland China, so I was more than likely dealing with their own staff.

They're chinks, what did you expect?

They kill 15million people, have some very poor human rights laws, have blatant censorship and propaganda to brainwash their easily brainwashed population, oppress people like the Tibetans, poison baby milk formula, have poor work conditions, support douche countries, displace 1.5million people so they build a big ass hydro damn etc.. etc.. and than demand respect from the West...

Bunch of tossers.

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01-01-2014, 07:52 PM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2014 07:56 PM by HU.Junyuan.)
RE: Cool boys' club
(01-01-2014 12:16 PM)War Horse Wrote:  The part I noticed most was that contratcts and such didnt hold much water in their eyes, however "face" was of great importance to most all of them, and they need to be convinced of the same from us in the west . It seems they almost enjoy the back and forth argueing and debates to see if they can get you to lose your cool.

It gets a bit frustrating when things dont go smooth from start to fininsh.

"Face" actually might also be beneficial: the process of establishing the connection is so painstaking to them as well. Once established, they generally don't want to change it for a period of time. There is a imported English word for it, called "Guanxi".

"Face", as I understand, involves a lot of emotions, especially anxiety and lack of confidence. You said "it seems they almost enjoy the back and forth arguing and debates to see if they can get you to lose your cool". They probably are such kind of as-Censored-oles exactly. It is also possible that they were poor bas-Censored-ards with serious anxiety problems who were actually rivaling with themselves, or that they were trying to make you at ease so that their lack of confidence didn't seem that terrible.

But BTW, frustrated though you are, the reason why you went to China to seek business opportunities was for profit, right ? If the cost (including negotiations) is too high and outweighs the benefits, it is wise to seek somewhere else, or to use your skills, outwit those crying babies and lower the cost. So, as I see it, it was also a "face" contest, a competition of IQ and EQ, with EQ playing a major role.

Ironically enough, I probably posted this thread subconsciously for "face" reasons as well. I am an atheist and a translator. I use the material here on Forum to strengthen my atheism view of the world. And I benefit from using the English language here and having conversations that broadens my mind, like this one we have now Tongue . Yet I kinda easily get distracted by a handful of hostile replies, or subconsciously crave for some confrontation. A little emotional and immature, am not I ?

Anyway, I wish you good luck in your future business activities. And your family, good health.

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01-01-2014, 10:52 PM
RE: Cool boys' club
I couldn't hear a word you said over how brainwashed and stupid you are.

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02-01-2014, 05:21 AM
RE: Cool boys' club
Be sure to bookmark this thread for you future employers, earmuffs.

I haven't been at the negotiating table myself. I'm a technical guy and I solve technical problems. I work with guys who spend time at that negotiating table though. Certainly the impression I get from them is that doing business in China involves far more in the way of games than doing business elsewhere. There seems to be more of a need to keep things to trade in your back pocket for future negotiations.

In the west if a customer says they want something you can more or less accept that on face value. If you talk to them about the issue they have and suggest a simpler cheaper better way to solve their problem they'll tend to work with you to solve it. Working in China there seems to be a different attitude. If a customer says they want something then as often as not it is a gambling chip that they want to trade for something else we haven't agreed to supply.

There often seem to be these items in contracts that are hard for a supplier to fulfil and are of low actual value to the Chinese customer. If the supplier works hard and fulfils the contract then they have missed the point. The thing the customer asked for is not what the customer wanted. Instead, they wanted to negotiate further after the contract was completed to get more of what they really wanted.

In the west the contract is the contract and you work to it. If it isn't working out there is some give and take to resolve issues with the contract, but we can always trust that the contract is what the supplier intends to deliver and the customer intends to acquire. It just doesn't seem to be that way as often when dealing with Chinese customers. The contract is for guidance, and for further negotiation. The real agreement is handled informally and requires a few rounds of 白酒 every once in a while. The agreement always seems to be in flux. That's not how we're used to working outside of China.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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02-01-2014, 07:20 AM
RE: Cool boys' club
HU.Junyuan, your English is great compared to the 'Chinglish' paperwork that comes with most product from there.... keep up the good work Thumbsup
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