Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
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11-12-2015, 03:16 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(11-12-2015 03:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 02:39 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Not disagreeing with you on number of shots, way too many but the point is to stop someone before they hurt others, one of the clauses of lethal force is when all other options have been utilized which in this case they were, then lethal force can be used. this man was in a gang, has a history of shooting people and doing very dangerous illegal things, if they did not shoot him after all else failed then what? let a cop be stabbed then shoot him?

He was shot 20 times in the front and back.

They knew he only had a knife.

One person could have easily disarmed him with one bullet. He wouldn't be Swiss cheese and the police wouldn't be under investigation for using extreme force.

They could have just beat the snot out of the guy Drinking Beverage

How could he have been disarmed with one bullet?

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11-12-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(11-12-2015 03:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 02:39 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Not disagreeing with you on number of shots, way too many but the point is to stop someone before they hurt others, one of the clauses of lethal force is when all other options have been utilized which in this case they were, then lethal force can be used. this man was in a gang, has a history of shooting people and doing very dangerous illegal things, if they did not shoot him after all else failed then what? let a cop be stabbed then shoot him?

He was shot 20 times in the front and back.

They knew he only had a knife.

One person could have easily disarmed him with one bullet. He wouldn't be Swiss cheese and the police wouldn't be under investigation for using extreme force.

They could have just beat the snot out of the guy Drinking Beverage

Again, not disagreeing with you on the number of times he was shot but where is the line where lethal force is used? It's sad that the only things cops can do to not get shit on is not use their guns, no matter the situation.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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11-12-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
I'd just like to point something out. This isn't me taking a side in this, just providing clarity so the debate can continue...

Yes, 20 shots is excessive. But it's also pretty much irrelevant. When the decision is made to shoot, it's a decision to use lethal force. That means shoot to kill. That's the way it should be too. There should never be a "shoot him in the leg" option. Your very first day in any reputable gun safety course will explain why. Trying to wound a person into submission with a bullet is a gamble we should never expect a law enforcement officer to take. The risk of accidentally killing someone is way too high.

I may have missed it, but has anyone else thought that it seems possible that the first shot in the op was the taser, and the subsequent gunfire was reactionary? That's really how it seemed to me from the first time I watched it. Like the first cop fired the taser, and the rest were startled into opening fire.

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11-12-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(11-12-2015 03:16 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 03:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  He was shot 20 times in the front and back.

They knew he only had a knife.

One person could have easily disarmed him with one bullet. He wouldn't be Swiss cheese and the police wouldn't be under investigation for using extreme force.

They could have just beat the snot out of the guy Drinking Beverage

How could he have been disarmed with one bullet?

So it takes 20? Blink

They were at close range.

They're supposed to be professionals keeping a cool head. If we can't rely on cops to make the right decisions and not give in to their adrenaline...

Even if they aimed for a knee or shoulder and delivered a fatal shot, I wouldn't have said a word.


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11-12-2015, 04:02 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
You don't aim for a knee or a shoulder. Especially when you're filled with adrenaline and firing a handgun. You aim for the centre of the body, so if you miss, you will still likely hit your intended target. Seems cold, but it really is safest practice.

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11-12-2015, 04:03 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
Oh, and I looked as closely as I could on my piece of shit iPad.....alas, I think the taser was the second shot, not the first.

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11-12-2015, 04:11 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(11-12-2015 03:58 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I may have missed it, but has anyone else thought that it seems possible that the first shot in the op was the taser, and the subsequent gunfire was reactionary? That's really how it seemed to me from the first time I watched it. Like the first cop fired the taser, and the rest were startled into opening fire.

That is what it seemed like.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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11-12-2015, 06:20 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
The one I posted, there was no taser, I guess none of the police in SF carry them. It's quite the controversy. I guess now they want to give them tasers. I don't know.

If one officer had fired one or two shots ok. But they feel at least 5 fired.


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11-12-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(11-12-2015 06:20 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The one I posted, there was no taser, I guess none of the police in SF carry them. It's quite the controversy. I guess now they want to give them tasers. I don't know.

If one officer had fired one or two shots ok. But they feel at least 5 fired.

Once the decision is made to use lethal force to stop a perceived threat, that is the standard as prescribed by nearly every law enforcement agency in the country, state or federal, based off the need to place the safety of bystanders and officers first. If only one of them had fired, then either he's wrong because he fired when he should have, or the rest are wrong because they didn't fire when they should have. Based on this standard, if five guys fire for one or two seconds before stopping to reassess the threat, 20 shots is about what should be anticipated.

If the context allows for it, such as if the threat is bunkered inside a house and anyone nearby has been evacuated, then they'll negotiate for hours if they have to. If they're in a public place and he's a mere 1 second rush away from changing a relatively controlled situation into a situation where a pedestrian is in the crossfire, they take him out while they have the opportunity, as mandated. To not do so would be dereliction of duty.

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11-12-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(11-12-2015 06:53 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 06:20 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The one I posted, there was no taser, I guess none of the police in SF carry them. It's quite the controversy. I guess now they want to give them tasers. I don't know.

If one officer had fired one or two shots ok. But they feel at least 5 fired.

Once the decision is made to use lethal force to stop a perceived threat, that is the standard as prescribed by nearly every law enforcement agency in the country, state or federal, based off the need to place the safety of bystanders and officers first. If only one of them had fired, then either he's wrong because he fired when he should have, or the rest are wrong because they didn't fire when they should have. Based on this standard, if five guys fire for one or two seconds before stopping to reassess the threat, 20 shots is about what should be anticipated.

If the context allows for it, such as if the threat is bunkered inside a house and anyone nearby has been evacuated, then they'll negotiate for hours if they have to. If they're in a public place and he's a mere 1 second rush away from changing a relatively controlled situation into a situation where a pedestrian is in the crossfire, they take him out while they have the opportunity, as mandated. To not do so would be dereliction of duty.

Thanks for information, I still find it disturbing though. From the videos I've seen, it doesn't appear that he was going rush all those cops...but I've said this before the police don't have an easy job.

Sad

I know the family of the victim has a lawyer and a suit has been filed. Thats not surprising.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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