Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
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08-12-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(08-12-2015 12:51 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Its about time. No more fucking around. Too many scum bags get to bully people and cops around. They expect cops and citizens to retreat and cower to their threat of violence. That time is over. Cops will shoot someone with a knife, just as any citizen would under similar circumstances. That's the beauty of rules of engagement and stand your ground laws. The bad guys have to think twice now.

People won't be victims anymore. Game over.


Fucking pussy.


You de-escalate the situation. Yeah, sometimes that can mean retreating. Does your fucking pride cost so much that you wouldn't retreat to save the life of another? Standing your ground and forcing a lethal confrontation isn't brave, it's callous and prideful. When a cop does it for the intent of excusing his predetermined desire to use lethal force? It's not just cowardly, it's fucking murder.


I don't expect everyone who runs into a cop can 'think twice' about their actions, for whatever reason. I do however expect the police to be trained damn well enough to think twice before executing someone with the slightest provocation. I expect better out of those paid by the public to serve and protect the public.


People don't want to be victims, and the cops are ever increasingly becoming the victimizers with their inability to think twice, to de-escalate a situation, to use anything but lethal force.


The UK cops, without guns and armed with tazers, neutralized a knife wielding terrorist who had already slashed 3 (injured, but not killed) people. They tazed him, when that didn't work they hit him a second time. He dropped, they kicked the knife out of his hands, and he was apprehended.


Nobody dead, and the suspect will face trial by a jury of his peers; as indeed he should. That is what real justice looks like.

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08-12-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(08-12-2015 01:43 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 01:40 PM)skyking Wrote:  Not the posting of a monster ^

That's a whole different debate. I would argue that emotionally stable people don't make good cops or soldiers simply because their normal cognitive responses prevent them from being able to think clearly in such situations. I tend to act rationally and in accordance to my rules of engagement while under pressure precisely because I am a borderline psychopath.
Unless you are willing to share your paperwork and multiple diagnoses with me, I'd have to disagree.
I think as a very intelligent and rational being, you are rationalizing how you can do what you do so well from the context of the rest of us. No need in my case, and I do thank you for a great explanation above.
My dad did not have your ability and he suffered most of his life for what he did in war.
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08-12-2015, 02:22 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2015 02:31 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(08-12-2015 01:55 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 12:51 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Its about time. No more fucking around. Too many scum bags get to bully people and cops around. They expect cops and citizens to retreat and cower to their threat of violence. That time is over. Cops will shoot someone with a knife, just as any citizen would under similar circumstances. That's the beauty of rules of engagement and stand your ground laws. The bad guys have to think twice now.

People won't be victims anymore. Game over.


Fucking pussy.


You de-escalate the situation. Yeah, sometimes that can mean retreating. Does your fucking pride cost so much that you wouldn't retreat to save the life of another? Standing your ground and forcing a lethal confrontation isn't brave, it's callous and prideful. When a cop does it for the intent of excusing his predetermined desire to use lethal force? It's not just cowardly, it's fucking murder.


I don't expect everyone who runs into a cop can 'think twice' about their actions, for whatever reason. I do however expect the police to be trained damn well enough to think twice before executing someone with the slightest provocation. I expect better out of those paid by the public to serve and protect the public.


People don't want to be victims, and the cops are ever increasingly becoming the victimizers with their inability to think twice, to de-escalate a situation, to use anything but lethal force.


The UK cops, without guns and armed with tazers, neutralized a knife wielding terrorist who had already slashed 3 (injured, but not killed) people. They tazed him, when that didn't work they hit him a second time. He dropped, they kicked the knife out of his hands, and he was apprehended.


Nobody dead, and the suspect will face trial by a jury of his peers; as indeed he should. That is what real justice looks like.

I have no sympathy for anyone that commits violent crime. If some thug pulls a knife on granny and granny pulls out her magnum from her purse and sends him to the morgue I just don't care. Fuck him. Yeah, granny could just hand over her jewels and money, sparing the life of the criminal, and hope the cops can catch him. But he'll just continue his life of crime. Just let granny handle it. Put him in the dirt.

This is the shit I'm talking about. These guys need a dirt nap.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/12/04/...twins.ktrk

And I just watched the video of those British "cops." Haha fucking pussies with no guns. No suspect control. Guy just attacking people. They're defenseless. They have absolutely no chance to face the challenge of Islamic jihad.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-12-2015, 03:34 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(08-12-2015 02:22 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 01:55 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Fucking pussy.


You de-escalate the situation. Yeah, sometimes that can mean retreating. Does your fucking pride cost so much that you wouldn't retreat to save the life of another? Standing your ground and forcing a lethal confrontation isn't brave, it's callous and prideful. When a cop does it for the intent of excusing his predetermined desire to use lethal force? It's not just cowardly, it's fucking murder.


I don't expect everyone who runs into a cop can 'think twice' about their actions, for whatever reason. I do however expect the police to be trained damn well enough to think twice before executing someone with the slightest provocation. I expect better out of those paid by the public to serve and protect the public.


People don't want to be victims, and the cops are ever increasingly becoming the victimizers with their inability to think twice, to de-escalate a situation, to use anything but lethal force.


The UK cops, without guns and armed with tazers, neutralized a knife wielding terrorist who had already slashed 3 (injured, but not killed) people. They tazed him, when that didn't work they hit him a second time. He dropped, they kicked the knife out of his hands, and he was apprehended.


Nobody dead, and the suspect will face trial by a jury of his peers; as indeed he should. That is what real justice looks like.

I have no sympathy for anyone that commits violent crime. If some thug pulls a knife on granny and granny pulls out her magnum from her purse and sends him to the morgue I just don't care. Fuck him. Yeah, granny could just hand over her jewels and money, sparing the life of the criminal, and hope the cops can catch him. But he'll just continue his life of crime. Just let granny handle it. Put him in the dirt.

This is the shit I'm talking about. These guys need a dirt nap.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/12/04/...twins.ktrk

And I just watched the video of those British "cops." Haha fucking pussies with no guns. No suspect control. Guy just attacking people. They're defenseless. They have absolutely no chance to face the challenge of Islamic jihad.

Did you see the statistics I posted a day or two ago in the other thread? Get over your silly obsession with "Islamic jihad". They are insignificant compared with the total number of violent deaths. There are grizzly bears roaming around and you're terrified of a mosquito. This thread in particular has nothing to do with Islamic jihad. It's about police officers acting like bullies, with fatal consequences. Totally different problem.
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08-12-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(08-12-2015 01:36 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I'm not gonna go too much into my own opinion of the encounter because I am, in fact, a monster and have never claimed otherwise. That said, there are a lot of misconceptions on how use of force works, its effectiveness, etc.

First off, pepper spray is useless in a situation like this. I've got into that debate before on other threads. On a non combatant (i.e. peaceful protester, non compliant inmate, etc.,) it's quite effective at obtaining compliance. On a combatant, it's not only ineffective, but can be counter productive. In this case, I suspect a face full of pepper spray would have resulted in the guy with the blade experiencing an immediate adrenaline rush and charging someone, at which time he would have been shot in a much less controlled manner.

In regards to the taser: They typically work only in a relatively controlled environment, as they depend on being employed from a very specific range. Too close and the tongs don't spread far enough, too far and they hit too wide, in either case losing their ability to immobilize the threat. Dark Helmet, though I understand your reasoning behind the concern with using the taser on someone potentially carrying an explosive, I would assume that this was not their concern given that they did ultimately choose to deploy the taser. That concern aside, I think this was an ideal situation to use the taser. He was armed and slowly advancing, but not outwardly aggressive, and the range was ideal.

What I think happened was simply that when the taser was put to use the other officers, under the stress of the situation, misinterpreted both the advance of the razor guy and the intent of the other officers and opened fire. As for the razor guy, I'd venture to guess this is exactly what he wanted. This is pretty much how a typical "suicide by cop" encounter goes. In any case, based on the fact that it would have been dereliction of duty for them to retreat and with the advance of the guy with the razor, I believe they were within their defined rules of engagement. That's not to say it was an ideal outcome, or that there weren't other better theoretical options, but if there is a problem it lies within the system governing the conduct of such encounters, not within the actions of the individual officers. I'll leave that judgement to the discretion of Florida law, as my own training has been in other opposite ends of the spectrum in corrections, which is without firearms and in a more controlled environment, and in the handling of detainees in combat operations, in which context we open fire if they so much as flinch before we've had a chance to search them whether they're obviously armed or not.

You know, I remember when I tried to make a thread asking why people were obsessed with excoriating cops even in instances where the steps they took to subdue the suspects without bloodshed were textbook. It was more an appeal for honing our focus over what aspects of law enforcement were in need of criticism than it was an attempt to justify rotten cops, but many interpreted it as the latter. It took pages for me to clarify that I wasn't ignorant of the deficiencies within law enforcement, but was rather musing about how for every repulsive proponent defending another unarmed black teenager killing carried out by the cops, there's also an individual so predisposed to villify police that they'd scream brutality if an officer so much as sprayed a water gun in their direction.

I agree with almost everything you've said, yakherder. My immediate impression after I watched the video was "suicide by cop," and that one of the officers let his trigger finger loose after he misinterpreted the taser deployment as a cue to fire at will. The rules of engagement cops abide by in the U.S. allows situations like this to play out all too frequently since the police aren't effectively trained in threat diffusement via non-violent means, especially when the suspect is mentally unbalanced. That's the crux of the problem on display here: the system's priorities are skewed when it comes to target engagement; lethal force is utilized more often than necessary due to human error.

What certainly isn't helping is the blatant demonization of the police in all scenarios in which force was utilized to neutralize a suspect. It's easy to judge when you're sitting comfortably at your home at your computer while browsing YouTube for cop shooting videos, but it's not your job to confront potentially violent, armed, psychotic offenders. How would you feel about a shirtless man waving a knife around while deliberately approaching you on the street? You'd probably be scared shitless. These cops may be trained to confront dangerous suspects, but that doesn't mean they aren't humans. We aren't a species that tends to deal with stress particularly effectively, and what's more stressing than a maniac with a knife threatening you? Those cops were tense, they were on edge and reacted with snap reflexes. If they really didn't give a fuck about possibly subduing him non-violently, they wouldn't have bothered breaking out the taser. The fact they let him get as close as he did bears testament to their reluctance to resort to violence in this scenario (not for legal cover, disobeying a cop's orders while armed is an invitation to get shot no matter how aggressively or non-aggressively you're approaching them), but violence they did resort to since that's what their training taught them, not necessarily because they're psychopathic scumbags.

Just some food for thought the next time somebody is tempted to call a cop a "spineless pussy" for resorting to lethal force. There is a litany of bad apples in the system and the system itself is rotten, but that doesn't mean every cop that resorts to lethal force is a callous, abusive bully. They could just be a human that made a misjudgement under pressure.

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08-12-2015, 07:28 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
Miami Beach Police ID Suspect Killed by Officer

Miami Beach Police have identified a bank robbery suspect who they say was wielding a razor when he was shot and killed by an officer on Alton Road. David W. Winesett, 51, was serving a sentence for multiple bank robberies at the Riverside Christian Ministries halfway house.

Facepalm
How can a guy serving a sentence for multiple bank robberies be out walking about?

Our legal system is so fucked up.

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08-12-2015, 08:08 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(08-12-2015 07:28 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Miami Beach Police ID Suspect Killed by Officer

Miami Beach Police have identified a bank robbery suspect who they say was wielding a razor when he was shot and killed by an officer on Alton Road. David W. Winesett, 51, was serving a sentence for multiple bank robberies at the Riverside Christian Ministries halfway house.

Facepalm
How can a guy serving a sentence for multiple bank robberies be out walking about?

Our legal system is so fucked up.

Probably had to make room for a pot smoker.

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08-12-2015, 09:10 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
Wow. That's really disturbing. A few thoughts from the peanut gallery over here.

1. The Young Turks website is not an objective view of events. Watching them is a bit like watching Fox News. You're not getting unbiased objectivity and I assume/hope people realize that.
2. I watched the video without the commentary about 6 times. The female cop is is obstructing the view of the guy and it's impossible to see what he's doing. Did he make an aggressive move that warranted shooting him? I couldn't tell. I will say that what you can see does not look good for the cop who pulled the trigger. I'd like to see an unobstructed view before passing judgment but the view we can see looks pretty bad.
3. I agree with Helmet that cops have families too and a right to go home at night. This notion that they have some kind of obligation to try to tackle a guy with a razor blade without regard to their own safety - and that's their job - is ridiculous. The guy who was shot could have avoided the whole thing if he put down the razor and surrendered. That doesn't automatically mean they were right in shooting him but just blindly blaming the cops doesn't make any sense at all to me. There was one person in control of this situation and he decided to grab a weapon and didn't put it down when he was told to and confronted by police acting in their lawful capacity. To claim that he's a total victim is just not based on reality.
4. I don't understand Helmet's blind trust for these cops. It's like you refuse to accept that maybe the cops were wrong here. Sometimes the cops are wrong. It happens.

and, finally

5. Being a cop is a shitty job. It was a shitty job before they were put under the microscope and now it's an even shittier job. You risk your life for zero gratitude. I get that there are cops who have done things that are criminal. Freddie Gray in Baltimore. The total shitstorm that is now developing in Chicago. There is an ever growing number of videos of cops shooting unarmed people all across the country. I think it's tough to argue there is not a problem here. At minimum, best case, there is a break down of trust between the police and the communities they are supposed to serve. Minorities in the US have complained for years about the types of abuses that are not showing up in videos on an alarmingly disturbing basis. But, the same way it's not every Muslim, it's not every cop either.

Last week 6 cops were shot trying to apprehend some lunatic who decided to shoot up a Planned Parenthood. One cop died, and he was not only off duty but came to assist an incident outside his jurisdiction. He died because he tried to do the right thing. Sometimes the cops really are the good guys. We all need to remember that. They should be punished like anyone else when they break the law, but they should be lauded when they do things like they did last week. They are not all criminals and it's unfair to act like they are.

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08-12-2015, 09:19 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
It's not just in the U.S. either, or just police for that matter. I'm still talking with people here in Canada I used to be in corrections with, and things are getting quite ridiculous. Assaults on staff are going up a lot, and people are afraid to defend themselves (or others) because the trend now is to scrutinize the actions of officers while coddling the inmates. Lockdowns are much more frequent, often lasting days at a time, due to critical manpower shortages (officers are leaving faster than they can be replaced). Inmates are always on the verge of rioting. Last night an officer was taken hostage for a while at the facility in Thunder Bay, Ontario.

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08-12-2015, 09:20 PM
RE: Cops Patiently Wait For Excuse To Execute Man
(08-12-2015 12:18 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 12:16 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  I'm amazed at the cops' behavior in this case. The guy was white. Usually they only shoot blacks for holding a knife.

Dodgy


Maybe it was a disguise Consider

You might be on to something there.

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