Corrupted Innocence
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04-09-2015, 10:40 AM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
(04-09-2015 10:34 AM)Free Wrote:  You need a kick in the ass.

Wink

I don't know who else was barking at you, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. Wink

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04-09-2015, 10:44 AM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
(04-09-2015 10:38 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Right, if that were the case, then christianity would not have evolved like it did and it would be as old as humanity itself.

No christianity would require that the child to be introduced to it. It's built on top of those intuitive beliefs, like all formalized religions are. Just like localized moral values, and beliefs are built on top of intuitive moral assumptions present in them when they were still babies.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-09-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
(04-09-2015 10:40 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 10:34 AM)Free Wrote:  You need a kick in the ass.

Wink

I don't know who else was barking at you, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. Wink

It's been brought up from time to time.

But I will actually listen to you, and down-size it to normal so that it's not so "in your face."

Thanks for the advice.

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04-09-2015, 01:36 PM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
(04-09-2015 09:43 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, that's not the case at all, the evidence suggests as early as we can trace, even among children not reared in religious home, that children are prone to teleological view of life, an intuitive belief that we're a part of some created order. That pointy rocks are for porcupines to scratch their back. Specific religious beliefs are built on top of these intuitive perceptions. It's these intuitive perceptions that account for the prevalence of religious beliefs among nearly every human culture that has ever existed.

It's the notion that we live in uncreated, or purposeless universe that would be a counter intuitive view, even it were true. Children are not inclined to look at all this, and believe that it's just sound and fury, but that life is endowed by some sort of significance and meaning.

Naturalistic fallacy, appeal to popularity, and an appeal to consequences.

Nicely done, Tomasia. It's a threefer!

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04-09-2015, 02:34 PM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
(04-09-2015 10:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 10:38 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Right, if that were the case, then christianity would not have evolved like it did and it would be as old as humanity itself.

No christianity would require that the child to be introduced to it. It's built on top of those intuitive beliefs, like all formalized religions are. Just like localized moral values, and beliefs are built on top of intuitive moral assumptions present in them when they were still babies.

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"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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04-09-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
It is a horrible thing to do to children. I remember crying myself to sleep as a child due to a scary Bible passage. At age six, during a happening for *children,* we were told the Bible story of God killing all the first born. I was the oldest--so naturally I thought this meant that God was coming to kill me.

Teaching children that there is an invisible sky daddy who has a naughty/nice list and will smite you and make a monster torture you for eternity for not measuring up is cruel on so many levels.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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04-09-2015, 02:43 PM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
(04-09-2015 09:29 AM)Free Wrote:  Many times on this forum- and especially lately- I have been questioned about the validity of my signature. I have never given a detailed response to it, because the detailed response is something a little more elaborate than what is on the surface.

Firstly, my signature reflects one of the three- the third one- of the most common understandings of the definition of atheism listed below:

"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

It is true that we are all born with no beliefs in anything, but inclusive in the lack of beliefs in anything is also our lack of beliefs in the existence of any deities.

It is not until we learn from religion that we become indoctrinated into religious beliefs, and that is when our lack of beliefs in the existence of deities ends. At a very young age we are taught about a god or gods, and we move from being naturally atheistic into the world of supernaturally inclined theism.

To me, at least, it certainly appears that theism corrupts our natural state of a lack of belief in gods; a state we are all born into. It doesn't matter whatsoever whatever else we lack beliefs in when we are born, for it is a certainty that we lack beliefs in any gods when we are born.

The new child is born completely into innocence, only to later be subjected to religious beliefs that can- as we have all witnessed many times- impair the judgement of that person later in life. We see this impaired judgement on a daily basis with Islamic Militants, fanatical Christians, and various religious scams aimed at the poor and despondent. We all know and agree that this, at least, to be the truth.

So my signature is more than just the words we see, as it represents my position against the corruption of our innocent children through the indoctrination of religious beliefs.

I understand how many of you will still disagree with my signature though, but I just felt that it should be explained a bit more so that perhaps some of you would understand where I am coming from.

Smile

I think I have to agree with you.
There is a reason why we are born without any knowledge and faith in God/Gods.
There is a veil. We have to forget about what we knew about God before we come here/before we obtain these mortal physical bodies.
Faith is not something that we have when we are born. Faith is gift that is not given to all. May be accept Jesus Christ. I think He knew about His Father and His God since He was young child.

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04-09-2015, 02:44 PM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
(04-09-2015 09:29 AM)Free Wrote:  Many times on this forum- and especially lately- I have been questioned about the validity of my signature. I have never given a detailed response to it, because the detailed response is something a little more elaborate than what is on the surface.

Firstly, my signature reflects one of the three- the third one- of the most common understandings of the definition of atheism listed below:

"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

It is true that we are all born with no beliefs in anything, but inclusive in the lack of beliefs in anything is also our lack of beliefs in the existence of any deities.

It is not until we learn from religion that we become indoctrinated into religious beliefs, and that is when our lack of beliefs in the existence of deities ends. At a very young age we are taught about a god or gods, and we move from being naturally atheistic into the world of supernaturally inclined theism.

To me, at least, it certainly appears that theism corrupts our natural state of a lack of belief in gods; a state we are all born into. It doesn't matter whatsoever whatever else we lack beliefs in when we are born, for it is a certainty that we lack beliefs in any gods when we are born.

The new child is born completely into innocence, only to later be subjected to religious beliefs that can- as we have all witnessed many times- impair the judgement of that person later in life. We see this impaired judgement on a daily basis with Islamic Militants, fanatical Christians, and various religious scams aimed at the poor and despondent. We all know and agree that this, at least, to be the truth.

So my signature is more than just the words we see, as it represents my position against the corruption of our innocent children through the indoctrination of religious beliefs.

I understand how many of you will still disagree with my signature though, but I just felt that it should be explained a bit more so that perhaps some of you would understand where I am coming from.

Smile

While I do think there is a biological basis behind the need for belief--clearly what those beliefs will be is dependent on where you grow up. I would agree that while we may be hardwired for "religious" thinking--the actual beliefs themselves are spoon fed by whichever culture you were born into.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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04-09-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
(04-09-2015 01:32 PM)Free Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 10:40 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I don't know who else was barking at you, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. Wink

It's been brought up from time to time.

But I will actually listen to you, and down-size it to normal so that it's not so "in your face."

Thanks for the advice.

Thank you. I didn't mind that it was "in my face", but it actually disrupted the flow of my screen-scanning, because of its size and color intensity, when reading through a thread that had your comments in it.

However, because I really liked what you said, I never complained about it. I'm in 100% agreement with you on that.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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04-09-2015, 04:40 PM
RE: Corrupted Innocence
Now it's too small leaving mine the more obnoxious. Weeping

Big Grin

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