Cosmological musings
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20-09-2015, 12:39 PM
RE: Cosmological musings
(20-09-2015 12:09 PM)Aoi Magi Wrote:  Parallel worlds within our world is not that unlikely, considering theoretically it is possible for the exact same arrangement of matter and energy as our earth to be present somewhere else in the universe, it is not implausible that portions of the universe are mirrored elsewhere. But the thing is, I don't think we have enough info about the universe to properly define it, let alone define it's boundaries.

Therein lies the problem and one of the points I'm trying to make. How do we determine where our universe ends if we do not establish the terms for what we mean by a universe? If there is a break of 100 billion light years of ISM, is that the end? 200 billion? A googleplex of lightyears? We haven't found the end because we haven't seen the end. But we could be looking at a vast gap of ISM into another universe and think we are still observing our own . . .

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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20-09-2015, 01:09 PM
RE: Cosmological musings
(20-09-2015 12:39 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  Therein lies the problem and one of the points I'm trying to make. How do we determine where our universe ends if we do not establish the terms for what we mean by a universe? If there is a break of 100 billion light years of ISM, is that the end? 200 billion? A googleplex of lightyears? We haven't found the end because we haven't seen the end. But we could be looking at a vast gap of ISM into another universe and think we are still observing our own . . .

The "parallel" part of the "parallel universe" definition means it is a copy of our universe and thus, I think, should be considered an extension of our own universe.
Personally I believe a different universe in a multiverse setting would have to be a fundamentally different place than our universe, as in, our laws of physics won't be applicable there, though I am not sure if that's possible.

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20-09-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: Cosmological musings
(20-09-2015 01:09 PM)Aoi Magi Wrote:  
(20-09-2015 12:39 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  Therein lies the problem and one of the points I'm trying to make. How do we determine where our universe ends if we do not establish the terms for what we mean by a universe? If there is a break of 100 billion light years of ISM, is that the end? 200 billion? A googleplex of lightyears? We haven't found the end because we haven't seen the end. But we could be looking at a vast gap of ISM into another universe and think we are still observing our own . . .

The "parallel" part of the "parallel universe" definition means it is a copy of our universe and thus, I think, should be considered an extension of our own universe.
Personally I believe a different universe in a multiverse setting would have to be a fundamentally different place than our universe, as in, our laws of physics won't be applicable there, though I am not sure if that's possible.

If that is the accepted definition of parallel universe then it's not what I'm talking about. When I say parallel, I mean side by side, not a copy but it's own unique composition, still subject to the same multiversal laws

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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21-09-2015, 04:47 PM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2015 05:26 PM by Octapulse.)
RE: Cosmological musings
I just figured out how this hypothesis can invariably be proven or disproved. We are currently aware that our universe is expanding and that is due to the light spectrum we observe from celestial objects. Objects that are stationary will appear in the yellow or central area of the light spectrum while objects that are moving away will appear on the red end of the spectrum which is where we get the term "redshift." If we believe that there is binary universe, we might also postulate that it arrived in the same manner as ours and is also expanding. Any celestial bodies in an expanding universe binary with our own will be observed as coming toward us and therefore be exhibiting "violetshift" from the opposite end of the light spectrum. If we can observe an area of space that exhibits a mass concentration of violetshift objects, it would be a very strong indication of a binary universe

Einstein

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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21-09-2015, 07:28 PM
RE: Cosmological musings
(20-09-2015 12:39 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  Therein lies the problem and one of the points I'm trying to make. How do we determine where our universe ends if we do not establish the terms for what we mean by a universe?
Do we deem the universe to be:
a) all matter and energy that exists?
or
b) all matter and energy expanding from a big bang event?

If a) then there is just one universe, if b) then there is no reason to think that there would only be one universe in existence.

If b) would it be possible to traverse through space and time from one universe to another? i.e. Is there a spacial path?

As far as I understand it, separation of particles requires energy (Potential Energy). For example as an object moves away from Earth it has energy in the form of Kinetic Energy. But since it gets further away from Earth (separation) it gains Potential Energy. Because energy must be conserved then this gain in Potential Energy must come from somewhere. It comes from the Kinetic Energy which gets reduced, so the moving object slows down as it moves away from Earth. Its rate of deceleration is constant(ish) depending on its distance from Earth. This rate is about 9.8 m/s^2, once it hits the point of zero velocity it still decelerates(accelerates) at the same rate and then begins moving back towards the Earth. It is now increasing its Kinetic Energy and this increase is coming from a decrease in Potential Energy (separation from Earth).

In the case of two universes existing within the same SpaceTime (if that is possible) then we would have to account for the Potential Energy between them (separation), where does that energy come from?
Now here comes my spur of the moment wild speculation. Perhaps if one universe comes into existence and is mostly matter, then perhaps another (twin) universe also comes into existence at the same time and is mostly anti-matter. Perhaps that somehow balances out regarding conservation of energy?

Or perhaps if multiple universes exist then they exist within a "bubble" of space time with no way for energy or matter to travel outside that bubble. Perhaps it is impossible for energy/matter to traverse from one universe bubble to another.

Maybe for us to calculate the size of the universe (our universe) then we have to take into account the age of our universe and all the matter and energy inside it. I think current calculation is that there is about 10^78 atoms in our universe and our universe is about 13.7 billion years old and expanding at an accelerating rate.
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21-09-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: Cosmological musings
(21-09-2015 07:28 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-09-2015 12:39 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  Therein lies the problem and one of the points I'm trying to make. How do we determine where our universe ends if we do not establish the terms for what we mean by a universe?
Do we deem the universe to be:
a) all matter and energy that exists?
or
b) all matter and energy expanding from a big bang event?
Quote:b is what I deem as correct

If a) then there is just one universe, if b) then there is no reason to think that there would only be one universe in existence.

If b) would it be possible to traverse through space and time from one universe to another? i.e. Is there a spacial path?

Quote:If all that separates the two is ISM unoccupied by matter, then I don't see why not. I don't think there is a special path.

As far as I understand it, separation of particles requires energy (Potential Energy). For example as an object moves away from Earth it has energy in the form of Kinetic Energy. But since it gets further away from Earth (separation) it gains Potential Energy. Because energy must be conserved then this gain in Potential Energy must come from somewhere. It comes from the Kinetic Energy which gets reduced, so the moving object slows down as it moves away from Earth. Its rate of deceleration is constant(ish) depending on its distance from Earth. This rate is about 9.8 m/s^2, once it hits the point of zero velocity it still decelerates(accelerates) at the same rate and then begins moving back towards the Earth. It is now increasing its Kinetic Energy and this increase is coming from a decrease in Potential Energy (separation from Earth).

Quote:I would have to ask, what would be the impact of coming out of a gravitational field of the Earth? Or the Sun? Are all moving objects in space subject to the same oppositional forces especially in the sparse regions?

In the case of two universes existing within the same SpaceTime (if that is possible) then we would have to account for the Potential Energy between them (separation), where does that energy come from?
Now here comes my spur of the moment wild speculation. Perhaps if one universe comes into existence and is mostly matter, then perhaps another (twin) universe also comes into existence at the same time and is mostly anti-matter. Perhaps that somehow balances out regarding conservation of energy?

Quote:When we observe matter at the quantum level, we find that anti matter already exists inside non fundamental particles. A proton has billions of quarks and anti-quarks, leptons and anti-leptons bouncing around at near the speed of light. It's the two extra up quarks and one extra down quark that gives the proton it's distinct properties. So a universe of anti-matter wouldn't be needed for balance as we already have it (so to speak)

Or perhaps if multiple universes exist then they exist within a "bubble" of space time with no way for energy or matter to travel outside that bubble. Perhaps it is impossible for energy/matter to traverse from one universe bubble to another.

Quote: I don't think there is any bubble or restraint to keep matter in, but rather the edge of the universe is dictated by the distance that matter has traversed from it's original point of singularity

Maybe for us to calculate the size of the universe (our universe) then we have to take into account the age of our universe and all the matter and energy inside it. I think current calculation is that there is about 10^78 atoms in our universe and our universe is about 13.7 billion years old and expanding at an accelerating rate.

That get's tricky as you have to account for the rate of expansion as well as the rate of deceleration of expansion

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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21-09-2015, 09:52 PM
RE: Cosmological musings
(21-09-2015 04:47 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  If we can observe an area of space that exhibits a mass concentration of violetshift objects, it would be a very strong indication of a binary universe

But Space itself is expanding, so distant objects will look like they are receding rather than advancing, even if they are headed in our direction. (like swimming against the tide)

If another universe is far enough away and given the speed of light limitation, then since so much space is between us and all expanding, the light from the other universe won't be fast enough to reach us.
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22-09-2015, 04:54 AM
RE: Cosmological musings
(21-09-2015 09:52 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 04:47 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  If we can observe an area of space that exhibits a mass concentration of violetshift objects, it would be a very strong indication of a binary universe

But Space itself is expanding, so distant objects will look like they are receding rather than advancing, even if they are headed in our direction. (like swimming against the tide)

If another universe is far enough away and given the speed of light limitation, then since so much space is between us and all expanding, the light from the other universe won't be fast enough to reach us.

Appearances are one thing, but their spectrum will give them away.

1. If there is a binary universe and a void expanse between them (maybe not, could be normal ISM), we have no way right now to determine just how big that is.

2. We have no assurance that any binary universe shares the same age as ours. It could be vastly older and have the necessary time for it's light to reach us

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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22-09-2015, 06:01 AM
RE: Cosmological musings
(21-09-2015 08:14 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 07:28 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Do we deem the universe to be:
a) all matter and energy that exists?
or
b) all matter and energy expanding from a big bang event?

If a) then there is just one universe, if b) then there is no reason to think that there would only be one universe in existence.

If b) would it be possible to traverse through space and time from one universe to another? i.e. Is there a spacial path?


As far as I understand it, separation of particles requires energy (Potential Energy). For example as an object moves away from Earth it has energy in the form of Kinetic Energy. But since it gets further away from Earth (separation) it gains Potential Energy. Because energy must be conserved then this gain in Potential Energy must come from somewhere. It comes from the Kinetic Energy which gets reduced, so the moving object slows down as it moves away from Earth. Its rate of deceleration is constant(ish) depending on its distance from Earth. This rate is about 9.8 m/s^2, once it hits the point of zero velocity it still decelerates(accelerates) at the same rate and then begins moving back towards the Earth. It is now increasing its Kinetic Energy and this increase is coming from a decrease in Potential Energy (separation from Earth).


In the case of two universes existing within the same SpaceTime (if that is possible) then we would have to account for the Potential Energy between them (separation), where does that energy come from?
Now here comes my spur of the moment wild speculation. Perhaps if one universe comes into existence and is mostly matter, then perhaps another (twin) universe also comes into existence at the same time and is mostly anti-matter. Perhaps that somehow balances out regarding conservation of energy?


Or perhaps if multiple universes exist then they exist within a "bubble" of space time with no way for energy or matter to travel outside that bubble. Perhaps it is impossible for energy/matter to traverse from one universe bubble to another.


Maybe for us to calculate the size of the universe (our universe) then we have to take into account the age of our universe and all the matter and energy inside it. I think current calculation is that there is about 10^78 atoms in our universe and our universe is about 13.7 billion years old and expanding at an accelerating rate.

That get's tricky as you have to account for the rate of expansion as well as the rate of deceleration of expansion

I don't know if you saw the rest of my answers on this, I attempted to insert responses throughout your post (without success) and it looks like I am just quoting myself. Please expand the collapsed portion of the original response to see the rest of my responses

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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22-09-2015, 06:06 AM
RE: Cosmological musings
(21-09-2015 09:52 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 04:47 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  If we can observe an area of space that exhibits a mass concentration of violetshift objects, it would be a very strong indication of a binary universe


If another universe is far enough away and given the speed of light limitation, then since so much space is between us and all expanding, the light from the other universe won't be fast enough to reach us.

Also, the expansion of the universe is actually quite small, it only seems large when you look at it at very large distances. The expansion of the universe will cause points in space 1 meter apart to move away from each other at about 2 * 10^-18 meters per second. To give you an idea of how small this is the diameter of an atom is is about 100 million times larger.

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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