Could you ever go back?
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28-04-2011, 02:22 AM
RE: Could you ever go back?
Could I believe in god at some point? Perhaps. A loving god? Nope. I recently was of the opinion that god could quite easily show himself to me such that I would believe, but I'm not so sure now. If I saw a deity appear from the heavens and greet me, I would pinch myself and then check in to a mental hospital. I probably wouldn't believe, but hopefully continue being skeptical and doubt that I myself was sane.
Other than incredible stress or fear, not much would get me believing or praying.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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29-04-2011, 09:35 PM
RE: Could you ever go back?
I've sat and thought about this before and came to the conclusion that I would accept that a god exists if I had proof (what such proof might be I have no idea) but I wouldn't worship, love or follow him/her/it.

I've been an atheist for 26 years now and have changed a lot over the years. When I first came to the conclusion that no god existed, I was heartbroken, I wanted my Lord to be real more than anything, but had to admit he wasn't there. So if you had proof for me at that time that Jehovah existed, I would have been delighted and began worshiping him again instantly. But after all these years having examined the bastard of a god in the bible, if you proved he existed now I would accept it, I might fear him but would not worship or love him under any circumstances.

So my answer to the question "Could you ever go back?" is a resounding, Hell NO!

“There is no sin except stupidity.” Oscar Wilde
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30-04-2011, 07:06 AM
RE: Could you ever go back?
(27-04-2011 06:08 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  If my friends asked me, "What is it gonna take for you to become a christian again?", I'd first check the back of their necks to see if they were the sequel to "Body Snatchers". Tongue

And pretty much, my answer would be Yeshua breaking through the clouds and taking me by the hand, looking me deep in my big hazel eyes while asking me to return to his flock.

Other than that, not a chance.


Should God decide to reveal himself to you, don't forget to check with a psychiatrist. Mental asylums are filled with people that hear voices and have visions.
But if they say you're clear, you should truly embrace the existence of unicorns, talking snakes and the favourable habitat of whale stomachs. Wink

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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30-04-2011, 08:14 AM
RE: Could you ever go back?
No, I don't think so. If a god revealed itself to me I would be skeptical. If it said 'I am the God of the bible' and performed miracles I would think it's trying to fool me.

Ultra high tech aliens trying to impersonate one of the gods in human mythology is far more likely than an actual god. Given what I understand about the universe now the idea of an actual god is ridiculous!

If anyone watched parts of the original Stargate series I found it funny that they named all the high-tech aliens after gods in human mythology.
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01-05-2011, 12:21 PM
RE: Could you ever go back?
Not in this lifetime.
What would it take to believe? Surviving death, i guess.... But then, it wouldn't be anything like the stories we've been told. The people who tell those stories have so little imagination! I'd rather take my cue from science fiction writers.
(Anyone read Towing Jehovah by James Morrow?)

But i'd certainly choose to go along and pretend rather than martyrdom - for an atheist, there's no posthumous reward.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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01-05-2011, 05:18 PM
RE: Could you ever go back?
(27-04-2011 03:41 PM)Efrx86 Wrote:  Wouldn't the obvious answer be "Only if God revealed himself to the world"?
This has always been my thought
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01-05-2011, 05:36 PM
 
RE: Could you ever go back?
(30-04-2011 07:06 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  
(27-04-2011 06:08 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  If my friends asked me, "What is it gonna take for you to become a christian again?", I'd first check the back of their necks to see if they were the sequel to "Body Snatchers". Tongue

And pretty much, my answer would be Yeshua breaking through the clouds and taking me by the hand, looking me deep in my big hazel eyes while asking me to return to his flock.

Other than that, not a chance.


Should God decide to reveal himself to you, don't forget to check with a psychiatrist. Mental asylums are filled with people that hear voices and have visions.
But if they say you're clear, you should truly embrace the existence of unicorns, talking snakes and the favourable habitat of whale stomachs. Wink
Oh, fine! Now that you've made fun I'm going to have to redecorate and move my recliner from next to Shamu's epiglottis! I hate that!

Tongue

What's so funny about Fundamentalism (Fundies = Fun Dies! Coincidence?) is most believe the Bible is the absolute inspired irrefutable inerrant word of god. And yet, when they hear about channeling, channelers, psychics, mediums and automatic writing they condemn it as work of the Devil. And at one time those practices garnered one condemnation as a heretic and punishment in burning at the stake, guillotine or hanging, depending on what region of the "civilized world" one lived in at the time they were accused.
And all the while, everything in the Christians Bible, then and today, was garnered through the same claims that they consider sacred evidence for god's breath.

And while most Fundies are looking up, waiting for the second coming in this big sky show extravaganza, if it ever did happen subtly as some miracle worker gains media scrutiny and claims to be the returned Christ, those same Fundies would cry fraud, psycho, lunatic, charlatan! While nodding their head in agreement with authorities who would take him into custody after being charged with assault, because it was very un-PC to lay his hands on a woman in a wheelchair. And after his claim he was only trying to answer her prayer for healing, he'd be medicated, locked away, subject to psychological testing and then declared mentally incompetent to form his own defense, so as to be locked away into a State psychiatric facility for suffering a god complex, for an indeterminate amount of time.
Meanwhile the wheelchair woman would not seek to file a lawsuit for personal injury, citing her Christian values prohibit her from persecuting the mentally unsound in filing a civil suit against him.

What would faith do if it was a proven fact? And how would over two thousand years of hope step aside and accept reality, when now as it stands reality is denigrated by many of the faithful as a delusional realm of the damned, orchestrated by the tricks of Satan![Image: 21.gif] The best friend the faith and the church ever had, having kept them both in business all these years and thanks to the god that made him possible, and the omniscience that was not surprised. Angel
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02-05-2011, 09:23 PM
RE: Could you ever go back?
I've been wondering about this lately, actually, because even if the clouds opened up and a blinding light shined down upon me and a booming voice spoke to me from the heavens with everyone around as a witness, how could I be sure it wasn't just advanced technology from a foreign (or even not-so-foreign) civilization?

It's probably being too picky, just getting into what could be theoretically true. Tongue It would probably convince me, so I would be a "believer" in the sense I would believe [whichever god or goddess or whatever] is real. But depending on their merits, I'm not sure I would follow them. And I can say that pretty securely, because I stopped being a Christian while still believing YHWH existed (as one among a multitude of gods). Hell wouldn't make any sense to exist anyway. Tongue If YHWH exists, he's the biggest liar in the universe.

"It does feel like something to be wrong; it feels like being right." -Kathryn Schulz
I am 100% certain that I am wrong about something I am certain about right now. Because even if everything I stand for turns out to be completely true, I was still wrong about being wrong.
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02-05-2011, 10:13 PM
RE: Could you ever go back?
(02-05-2011 09:23 PM)ebilekittae Wrote:  I've been wondering about this lately, actually, because even if the clouds opened up and a blinding light shined down upon me and a booming voice spoke to me from the heavens with everyone around as a witness, how could I be sure it wasn't just advanced technology from a foreign (or even not-so-foreign) civilization?

I've watched some of Derren Brown's stuff, and it got me onto the same line of thought. He converted a room of about a dozen atheists into believers with just a single touch(and de-converted them after, no atheist beliefs were harmed in the making of the video), and all sorts of other "miracles". It got me thinking.

If you could watch Jesus walk on water, and know for a fact that a person can walk on water, does that provide enough evidence to accept whatever explanation that water-walking man gives? You can watch a magician amaze and stun you, but even though you don't know how he did what he did, does that mean that taking his explanation of "magic" is logical? And in the same way, if you watch a person walk on water, would you accept his explanation of "I'm the son of god"? As you said, you can see an event, but without seeing how it worked, you have no idea if the booming voice is god or aliens.

Well, now that I made this long post, I feel I should throw my two cents to the OP too. I've never been Christian, but could I convert to Christianity? I think I could, my mind likes to cling to conspiracies and the supernatural. I'd probably be riddled with constant doubt, knowing deep down that there's nothing to it. But I'm fairly certain that if I choose to, I could bury my head very deep in the sand. Not that I would, just that I'm able.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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05-05-2011, 10:10 PM
RE: Could you ever go back?
(02-05-2011 10:13 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 09:23 PM)ebilekittae Wrote:  I've been wondering about this lately, actually, because even if the clouds opened up and a blinding light shined down upon me and a booming voice spoke to me from the heavens with everyone around as a witness, how could I be sure it wasn't just advanced technology from a foreign (or even not-so-foreign) civilization?

I've watched some of Derren Brown's stuff, and it got me onto the same line of thought. He converted a room of about a dozen atheists into believers with just a single touch(and de-converted them after, no atheist beliefs were harmed in the making of the video), and all sorts of other "miracles". It got me thinking.

If you could watch Jesus walk on water, and know for a fact that a person can walk on water, does that provide enough evidence to accept whatever explanation that water-walking man gives? You can watch a magician amaze and stun you, but even though you don't know how he did what he did, does that mean that taking his explanation of "magic" is logical? And in the same way, if you watch a person walk on water, would you accept his explanation of "I'm the son of god"? As you said, you can see an event, but without seeing how it worked, you have no idea if the booming voice is god or aliens.

Well, now that I made this long post, I feel I should throw my two cents to the OP too. I've never been Christian, but could I convert to Christianity? I think I could, my mind likes to cling to conspiracies and the supernatural. I'd probably be riddled with constant doubt, knowing deep down that there's nothing to it. But I'm fairly certain that if I choose to, I could bury my head very deep in the sand. Not that I would, just that I'm able.

On your note, If someone walked on water, caused me to walk on water, raised the dead, turned water into wine, fed 5000 people, etc, he could say he was elmer fudd and I'd believe him. Yet Peter( the same guy that had his ear reformed on his head by Jesus), denied him 3 times, Judas betrayed him, Thomas needed to see proof, even when he was in front of him, and apparently only a few of the disciples, in spite of all they saw, actually had enough belief to go to the tomb and see if he rose like he said. You would think that a person like that who suspends so much of the law of nature would be somone you'd want to roll with no matter what. Of course then that could give validity to why they followed him so strongly when he rose again. But still, it was good enough for 12 fishing dudes but not for us?
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