Could you fight in the Civil War?
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14-10-2012, 11:56 PM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
Could I fight in the civil war? Yes, I most definately could. All I need to know is that someone is trying to kill me. I must take them out before they can get me, because I wish to live at least long enough to reproduce. Then of course long enough to collect social security and be at least a small fraction of the burden the current senior citizens are. If you are referring to a new civil war that I think that at least some of us can feel coming. Yes, it all just depends on what side I would take. I work security and don't make much money. Yes the government is corrupt, but with the economy being in the shitter I actually managed to buy a house. Just like all those people that had the houses just a few years ago and didn't care whether or not I could feed myself, I don't really care what happens to them. Things being what they are, me in my own house and those that had houses not having them any longer. I would have to say that I would take the current government's side, because I don't want to lose what I worked so hard for. Now, if it looked like the resistance was winning, I might be willing to side with them. Just like everyone else used to (and presumably still do), I am voting in ways that I hope will keep things the way they are. Any worse and I might find myself without a job and any better and my taxes might go up so much that I lose my property. What a wicked system it is, huh?
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15-10-2012, 12:37 AM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
Nope.
Why? Because I'm a selfish bastard and would rather let other people die for my freedom or right to vote or whatever the flavor of the month is at the time.
If you want me I'm be relaxing on the beech with my pineapple juice with a do-not disturb sign on the door.

My life > My country.

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15-10-2012, 01:51 AM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
(15-10-2012 12:37 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Nope.
Why? Because I'm a selfish bastard and would rather let other people die for my freedom or right to vote or whatever the flavor of the month is at the time.
If you want me I'm be relaxing on the beech with my pineapple juice with a do-not disturb sign on the door.

My life > My country.

Good thought, however what happens if life starts to suck worse than ever before with no hope of improving without action? Would it be worth fighting for then?
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15-10-2012, 01:59 AM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
Nope. I'm scrawney, a terrible shot, and tire easily.

Being as skinny as I am a bullet would pass straight through me. So I'd fail as a bullet catcher.

So nope I wouldn't fight.

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15-10-2012, 02:18 AM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
(15-10-2012 01:51 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(15-10-2012 12:37 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Nope.
Why? Because I'm a selfish bastard and would rather let other people die for my freedom or right to vote or whatever the flavor of the month is at the time.
If you want me I'm be relaxing on the beech with my pineapple juice with a do-not disturb sign on the door.

My life > My country.

Good thought, however what happens if life starts to suck worse than ever before with no hope of improving without action? Would it be worth fighting for then?

I'd be mildy inconvenienced for a day as I pack up and move over seas.

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15-10-2012, 02:45 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2012 02:51 AM by Dark Light.)
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
You have touched on quite a few sub-topics so I will answer them one at a time.

(14-10-2012 12:48 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Normally, a soldier is able to kill another human being with a cognitive disconnect. They tell themselves that they are in the right and that the person they are killing is "the other." They disconnect themselves through anything different about the person. Their strange language, or culture, or skin color. These dark skinned Africans with their barbaric culture of genocide on their own people. Or these uneducated Middle Eastern men with their crazy religion and misguided morals. We take whatever is different about our enemy and we construct a mindset around it, numbing the pain of the act of murder by likening small differences to alien proportions.

But in the American Civil War (or any civil war your particular country might have fought), you are ordered to kill your own kind. There's no "strange land of savages far across the sea" to go "save." These are people you know; relatives, friends, fellow countrymen. They speak and look the same as you. The only difference between you is a matter of opinion over slave legality.

Sure you can. Historically wars and battles were most often fought with your neighbors. With mercantilism gaining popularity in the Middle Ages, it was usually over land. They sometimes spoke a different language, and sometimes had different skin color but it was often against people that shared you same culture and background. This is also how the Persian and Chinese Empires came to me How the Roman Empire got so large. Of course the same was true of the northern Germanic peoples too, they fought one another and shared the same heritage and culture (though the were different tribes). It's also how revolutions are won or lost, America did it, France, several S. American countries as well.

Also, and this was not the point you were trying to address I thought it should be worth noting anyhow, while the issue of slavery was certainly the primary catalyst I would not consider it THE reason. There certain 'Union' states that supported slavery, and vast chunks of the south were oppose to it, especially in the mountainous regions of Tennessee, N. Carolina, S. Carolina, and Virginia (though it ripped the state into).

(14-10-2012 12:48 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I don't know if I could do it. Fighting in Iraq is easier, because you can tell yourself that you are liberating oppressed women or cleansing a chaotic nation of an infectious terrorist plague. But if the president told me to head a few states south, where I know people and used to vacation as a child, and kill another American because he disagreed with the majority opinion, I don't know if I could. No matter how strongly I felt about the issue, there HAD to be a better way to resolve it than war.

In my opinion anyone who told themselves that was either a puppet manipulated by Uncle Sam, a fool, ignorant, or desperate to fool themselves. I mean no offense if you served over there. I served in OEF and I admit when I left for deployment I was some combination of the above, but I did not come home that way. Of course war can be avoided if the proper measures are taken, and people have the will and foresight to do what is necessary to prevent it. Slavery should have been abolished long before the civil war as it was unconstitutional, and we are the only country that I know of that had to have a civil war over the matter. The British government abolished slavery 40+ years before our civil war by the govt buying all the slaving and freeing them. That was a much better solution than ours but ideally we would've never had slavery to begin with.

(14-10-2012 12:48 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  But then I start to think about those same Iraqis. There had to be a better way. I think that if we are going to invade another country (and not just defend our homeland), then the soldiers who go to fight should have to legally live there for several years. You should be forced to get to know the families of those you killed and understand that their reasons for fighting you were just as compelling as yours for fighting them. Would make volunteers for the military during times of invasion all but disappear, and rightly so.

You have to blame the govt. post WWII-present for all of that. Intervening and meddling starting immediately after WWII caused blowback, so re reacted with more force, and eventually bombs, and there is no such thing as a smart bomb, I don't care what they name it. Innocent people die, and then the civilians hate us (rightfully so) and they become militants, or terrorists if you prefer, and it just turns into a senseless decade long war with no real (good) results. I have no fucking clue what the hell you are talking about soldiers knowing the families, blah. That part is just non-sense. All you need is a better government and an educated public. The industrial military complex is partially to blame. War is bad business for the people, but very good business foe them, and so what do you think happens?

I banged that out pretty quick so apologies for the typos or misspellings or whatever...I will leave you with a quote from one of my favorite historical figures.

"All Wars are Follies, very expensive, and very mischievous ones. When will Mankind be convinced of this, and agree to settle their Differences by Arbitration? Were they to do it, even by the Cast of a Dye, it would be better than by Fighting and destroying each other."
-Benjamin Franklin

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15-10-2012, 02:52 AM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
(14-10-2012 12:48 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Normally, a soldier is able to kill another human being with a cognitive disconnect. They tell themselves that they are in the right and that the person they are killing is "the other." They disconnect themselves through anything different about the person. Their strange language, or culture, or skin color. These dark skinned Africans with their barbaric culture of genocide on their own people. Or these uneducated Middle Eastern men with their crazy religion and misguided morals. We take whatever is different about our enemy and we construct a mindset around it, numbing the pain of the act of murder by likening small differences to alien proportions.

But in the American Civil War (or any civil war your particular country might have fought), you are ordered to kill your own kind. There's no "strange land of savages far across the sea" to go "save." These are people you know; relatives, friends, fellow countrymen. They speak and look the same as you. The only difference between you is a matter of opinion over slave legality.

I don't know if I could do it. Fighting in Iraq is easier, because you can tell yourself that you are liberating oppressed women or cleansing a chaotic nation of an infectious terrorist plague. But if the president told me to head a few states south, where I know people and used to vacation as a child, and kill another American because he disagreed with the majority opinion, I don't know if I could. No matter how strongly I felt about the issue, there HAD to be a better way to resolve it than war.

But then I start to think about those same Iraqis. There had to be a better way. I think that if we are going to invade another country (and not just defend our homeland), then the soldiers who go to fight should have to legally live there for several years. You should be forced to get to know the families of those you killed and understand that their reasons for fighting you were just as compelling as yours for fighting them. Would make volunteers for the military during times of invasion all but disappear, and rightly so.

The Civil War was much more than how each side felt about slave legality. Both sides knew slavery was soon to come to an end, just a matter of time. Sure it was a side issue obviously more so with the South primarily due to the agrarian culture of the South.

That war however was primarily focused on the higher tariffs the South had to pay on imported goods, higher taxes on shipping goods overseas, higher interest rates at banks, and they were irritated over their belief in control of voting power in the government belonging to the North.

This still doesn't give necessity for war especially amongst countrymen. It has been said the war could have been avoided has Lincoln continued to try and negotiate with the Southern states and reach an agreement to reunite with the Union. Instead Lincoln made an address that he would fortify and strengthen the garrison at Fort Sumter, which the South felt belonged to them. This is where the war began.

[/end history rant] Tongue

As to your question I have no definite answer. I am one to try and negotiate/debate things to a peaceful resolution. However if my home, family, beliefs are threatened with violence then it's fight or flight I suppose.

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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15-10-2012, 01:45 PM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
Killing doesn't bother me as much. It's not so much them vs me as I have a gun and am supposed to use it. If they present a target I'll try to hit it. Morals don't really have a place in war.

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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15-10-2012, 03:58 PM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
No I wouldnt.

I only defend myself.... there is nothing good about taking the life of another, no matter what the circumstances.

Its not something good to live with.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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15-10-2012, 04:19 PM
RE: Could you fight in the Civil War?
I suppose it would become less of a conscious choice once the war came to your doorstep. I'd probably stay out of it until I saw armed men advancing towards my mom's house. Then the "fellow countrymen" aspect of it would go right out the window.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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