Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
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16-11-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(16-11-2013 02:38 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(15-11-2013 11:27 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Bible teaches that in a world where all trust the Savior, there are no typhoons and etc. Become the solution.

If YHWH wanted me to take him seriously, he would have made himself non-falsifiable. Pray to him that he makes himself part of the solution.

Seriously. How do you actually believe that if the entire world's population were suddenly credulous that severe weather would no longer be a thing?

By being deeply, deeply delusional. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2013, 04:25 PM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(16-11-2013 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 02:38 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  If YHWH wanted me to take him seriously, he would have made himself non-falsifiable. Pray to him that he makes himself part of the solution.

Seriously. How do you actually believe that if the entire world's population were suddenly credulous that severe weather would no longer be a thing?

By being deeply, deeply delusional. Drinking Beverage

Actually, from a biblical point of view, we can place all of the blame of this on PleaseJesus. The Bible teaches that if you have the faith of a mustard seed (quite small, this means) that you can move mountains. "Moving mountains" is typically thought to be a stand-in for any form of miracles. So, if the Bible were true, then PJ could stop the typhoons, so long as he had faith the size of a mustard seed. This leads me to three conclusions:

1) PleaseJesus doesn't have enough faith.

2) PleaseJesus does have enough faith, but doesn't care to stop the problem.

3) The Bible is wrong.


(The irony of how this completely and perfectly overlaps with The Problem of Evil is not lost on me.)
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18-11-2013, 01:53 AM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(15-11-2013 10:05 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Some typhoon killed a lot of people is not a rational argument against the existence of an omnibenevolent God when Omni-benevolence can mean anything you want it to mean. If God thinks He is omnibenevolent does that mean that He is? If you think God isn't omnibenevolent does that mean He isn't.

The problem isn't just omnibenevolence, it's omnibenevolence combined with omnipotence. Your god could be omnibenevolent, but without any ability to interact in our reality (much like your imagination); and thus why worship something unable to do anything and whom we are unable to verify or test? The typhoon and the needless suffering it causes, is proof that a being powerful enough to do something about it and cares enough to do something about it, does not exist. Cause if it did exist, something would have been done about the typhoon... Drinking Beverage

You can't hold a typhoon against a god who didn't create the universe and is unable to interact with it in any meaningful way. Likewise, one would have to wonder why anybody would consider such a being a 'god' in the first place. We're back the ages old problem, either your god doesn't have the power or doesn't seem to care. You can't simply claim he has both in a world filled with untold suffering, especially when we all can easily imagine a better world than this (even if you can't or refuse to). It's not that your god lacks imagination, the people who made him up did...

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18-11-2013, 02:33 AM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(18-11-2013 01:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The problem isn't just omnibenevolence, it's omnibenevolence combined with omnipotence. Your god could be omnibenevolent, but without any ability to interact in our reality (much like your imagination); and thus why worship something unable to do anything and whom we are unable to verify or test? The typhoon and the needless suffering it causes, is proof that a being powerful enough to do something about it and cares enough to do something about it, does not exist. Cause if it did exist, something would have been done about the typhoon... Drinking Beverage

You say, "needless suffering" which implies that you believe some suffering is needed or at least can be needed. Your argument basically amounts to, "I don't like the amount of suffering God allows and that is proof He either isn't omnipotent or omnibenevolent".

I'm sorry but your argument isn't convincing.
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18-11-2013, 03:21 AM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(18-11-2013 02:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-11-2013 01:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The problem isn't just omnibenevolence, it's omnibenevolence combined with omnipotence. Your god could be omnibenevolent, but without any ability to interact in our reality (much like your imagination); and thus why worship something unable to do anything and whom we are unable to verify or test? The typhoon and the needless suffering it causes, is proof that a being powerful enough to do something about it and cares enough to do something about it, does not exist. Cause if it did exist, something would have been done about the typhoon... Drinking Beverage

You say, "needless suffering" which implies that you believe some suffering is needed or at least can be needed. Your argument basically amounts to, "I don't like the amount of suffering God allows and that is proof He either isn't omnipotent or omnibenevolent".

I'm sorry but your argument isn't convincing.


Any amount of suffering negates a caring god powerful enough to do something about it. Sorry, your god concept is full of shit.

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18-11-2013, 03:30 AM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(18-11-2013 03:21 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Any amount of suffering negates a caring god powerful enough to do something about it. Sorry, your god concept is full of shit.

Sorry but your concept of reality is full of shit.

Everyone knows the pleasure of a scratch is much more satisfying when you are suffering from an itch.
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18-11-2013, 04:24 AM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(18-11-2013 03:30 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-11-2013 03:21 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Any amount of suffering negates a caring god powerful enough to do something about it. Sorry, your god concept is full of shit.

Sorry but your concept of reality is full of shit.

Everyone knows the pleasure of a scratch is much more satisfying when you are suffering from an itch.

Your imagination is shit. A god with that kind of power who cared could have made the lack of an itch feel better than the scratch. We've been down this road before. You (and PJ) simply lack the imagination, you don't appear to be able to contemplate anything better than what we already have. Yet you seem to have no issues with Heaven, imagine that. You can imagine a Heaven that is better than this, but somehow expecting actual reality to be better is somehow out of the question for your god? Are there typhoons and tsunami's in Heaven? Color me unimpressed.

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18-11-2013, 04:46 AM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(18-11-2013 04:24 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Your imagination is shit. A god with that kind of power who cared could have made the lack of an itch feel better than the scratch. We've been down this road before. You (and PJ) simply lack the imagination, you don't appear to be able to contemplate anything better than what we already have. Yet you seem to have no issues with Heaven, imagine that. You can imagine a Heaven that is better than this, but somehow expecting actual reality to be better is somehow out of the question for your god? Are there typhoons and tsunami's in Heaven? Color me unimpressed.

I don't like the concept of heaven that doesn't include suffering. It reminds me of this:



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18-11-2013, 04:54 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2013 05:02 AM by bustead.)
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(18-11-2013 02:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-11-2013 01:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The problem isn't just omnibenevolence, it's omnibenevolence combined with omnipotence. Your god could be omnibenevolent, but without any ability to interact in our reality (much like your imagination); and thus why worship something unable to do anything and whom we are unable to verify or test? The typhoon and the needless suffering it causes, is proof that a being powerful enough to do something about it and cares enough to do something about it, does not exist. Cause if it did exist, something would have been done about the typhoon... Drinking Beverage

You say, "needless suffering" which implies that you believe some suffering is needed or at least can be needed. Your argument basically amounts to, "I don't like the amount of suffering God allows and that is proof He either isn't omnipotent or omnibenevolent".

I'm sorry but your argument isn't convincing.

Let me sum up a bit.
Death cannot be avoided. It is only a matter of time.
People may end up in heaven enjoying their lives after death.
Sending people to a good place and have fun as fast as one can is moral.
So what is the point on living? Kill people to send them to heaven?

I got Dysgraphia and i am not living in the US so plz forgive my poor english.
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18-11-2013, 05:02 AM
RE: Couldn't he have just, you know, stopped the hurricane?
(18-11-2013 04:54 AM)bustead Wrote:  Let me sum up a bit.
Death cannot be avoided. It is only a matter of time.
People may end up in heaven enjoying their lives after death.
Sending people to a good place and have fun as fast as one can is moral.
So killing is moral.
So what is the point on living?

That's why suicide is a sin, because heaven forbid (pun intended) that you leave your terrible Earthly existence behind and cut yourself to the head of the line for the never ending party of the century.

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