Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT TRUE."
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08-05-2014, 12:57 PM
Exclamation Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT TRUE."
What are some quick short counters to people saying that believing in nebulous magic and/or sentient magic makes them feel good. And if it makes them feel good, it doesn't matter if it's not true.

All religious, and pseudo religious (things placebo based, like horoscopes, or acupuncture) arguments boil down to that one point: makes people feel good. So why fight it?

So, what do you have to counter it? Remember, your goal is to deconvert people, not lash out at them.
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08-05-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT TRUE."
Hmmm, even if it makes you feel good, doesn't mean it does you good. Drugs made me feel good, though they did harm to me.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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08-05-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT TRUE."
Saying that [insert bullshit] makes you feel good is no more to the point than the fact that being drunk makes you feel good. Doesn't mean it's good for you.

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08-05-2014, 01:01 PM
RE: Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT TRUE."
(08-05-2014 01:00 PM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  Hmmm, even if it makes you feel good, doesn't mean it does you good. Drugs made me feel good, though they did harm to me.

Eating twenty bowls of ice cream made my brother feel good, and look at him now.
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08-05-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT TRUE."
(08-05-2014 12:57 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  What are some quick short counters to people saying that believing in nebulous magic and/or sentient magic makes them feel good. And if it makes them feel good, it doesn't matter if it's not true.

All religious, and pseudo religious (things placebo based, like horoscopes, or acupuncture) arguments boil down to that one point: makes people feel good. So why fight it?

So, what do you have to counter it? Remember, your goal is to deconvert people, not lash out at them.

Declaring that a cancer patient has been cured if it's not true is very harmful.

What would be better for a person: spending money on faux treatments, or spending that same hard-earned money on proven treatments.

It's not just that "these things make people feel better." It's often that "misinformation and deception can manipulate people's feelings, influencing them to feed their money into a certain someone's pocket."

Ever heard the "ignorance is bliss" phrase? Ignorance can kill, and the killing agent can sometimes seem blissful till it deals the killing blows.

Woo can be fun. It really can! In fact, I STILL have fun with it! But I know it's woo, and I don't base life decisions on it... I just play with it like a silly game or a toy or whatever. Since I know it's Woo, I don't have to be ignorant of xyz, and I also don't have to be terrified of certain omens, curses, "Heavenly discipline," yadda, yadda, yadda. My woo is shiny and sparkly though. Or glowy. Like candles. And crystal balls. I love crystal balls.


I could go on, but I hope that helps. Smile I think this is a great topic, by the way. Christopher Hitchens has answered this very question himself; I just don't remember exactly what he said.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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08-05-2014, 01:18 PM
RE: Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT
(08-05-2014 01:10 PM)Charis Wrote:  Ever heard the "ignorance is bliss" phrase? Ignorance can kill, and the killing agent can sometimes seem blissful till it deals the killing blows.

Some people might consider death to be bliss....


...and boy does that sound depressing Sadcryface

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08-05-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT TRUE."
The "drug" route was a good one. But certain drugs have been more accepted, so that's becoming less of a satisfactory counter. "Weed doesn't hurt anyone, it gets me through the day - just like my spirituality."

But I think the "spirituality doesn't fix or confront the issues that's making you unhappy. It just postpones it (with possible deadly consequences, depending on the issue)." is a better counter.

Another one is "it's a placebo with detrimental baggage. moderates of a religion only encourage fundamentalists. or leads you to becoming a fundamentalists yourself." Secular/reality based comforts/aids are a plenty.
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08-05-2014, 07:09 PM
RE: Counters to "RELIGIONS/SPIRITUALITY HELPS PEOPLE. DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S NOT TRUE."
(08-05-2014 01:18 PM)John Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 01:10 PM)Charis Wrote:  Ever heard the "ignorance is bliss" phrase? Ignorance can kill, and the killing agent can sometimes seem blissful till it deals the killing blows.

Some people might consider death to be bliss....


...and boy does that sound depressing Sadcryface

Really? My NDE was rather nice, not unlike the warm, carefree fuzziness of falling into a deep sleep surrounded by blankets, or falling asleep exhausted after an all-day BBQ with copious alcohol.

It was only after the medics untwisted my windpipe, the shock wore off, and the months of recovery, the pins, and getting bones and musculature to work again that it seemed unpleasant. The actual moment of "death" is not all that bad.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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