Creation
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07-01-2011, 11:43 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2011 11:52 AM by theophilus.)
Creation
Here is something from the Biblical contradictions article on this forum:

http://thethinkingatheist.com/bible_contradictions.html

Quote:HOW DID THE STARS GIVE LIGHT TO THE EARTH?

God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.
Genesis 1:16 (The stars gave light to the earth immediately, although the closest star, Alpha Centauri, is 4.3 light years away. So the very first star light would have taken 4.3 years to reach earth. The light we see from the Andromeda Galaxy takes 2.2 million years to reach earth... which also debunks the argument that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old.)
First of all this doesn't say that he created the stars then, only that their light became visible in the sky. The six days only record the creation of the earth and say nothing about when the rest of the universe was created. I have gone into more detail about what the Bible actually says here,

http://www.christiandoctrinediscussion.c...ation.html

Second, it is possible that the speed of light was greater then so that the light could have reached earth even if the stars were created then. Adam's sin affected the whole earth and apparently Satan's sin affected the rest of the universe. Romans 8:19-22 says,
Quote:For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
This could have brought about changes in the physical laws of the universe, including the speed of light.

Here are some more supposed contradictions:
Quote:WHICH CAME FIRST IN CREATION?

GENESIS 1:11-12 and 1:26-27: Trees came before Adam.

GENESIS 2:4-9: Trees came after Adam.

GENESIS 1:20-21 and 26-27: Birds were created before Adam.

GENESIS 2:7 and 2:19: Birds were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:24-27: Animals were created before Adam.

Genesis 2:7 and 2:19: Animals were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:26-27: Adam and Eve were created at the same time.

Genesis 2:7 and 2:21-22: Adam was created first, woman sometime later.

Genesis 1:31: God was pleased with his creation.

Genesis 6:5-6: God was not pleased with his creation. (Which raises the question, how can an omnipotent, omniscient God create something he’s not pleased with?)
Genesis 1 tells of the creation of the earth. In Genesis 2 there is a detailed description of the creation of Adam and Eve, which took place on the sixth day. Genesis 2:19 says,
Quote:Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
Genesis 1:26,27 merely says that God made Adam and Eve, it doesn't say he made them at the same time, so there is no contradiction with what is said in chapter 2.

The last "contradiction" merely show that God was pleased with his creation before sin entered it and displeased after it had been corrupted by sin.

The contradictions and mistakes that people claim to find in the Bible can be explained by studying it more carefully. You can find help in understanding the Bible here:

http://jfb.biblecommenter.com/genesis/1.htm

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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07-01-2011, 12:21 PM
RE: Creation
I'm waiting until he explains how the Earth is really the center of the Universe.

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07-01-2011, 12:28 PM
RE: Creation
Quote:First of all this doesn't say that he created the stars then, only that their light became visible in the sky.
According to Genesis 1:3-4 God created light after he created the earth. So the light of the stars could only have started their journey in the first day of creation.
Quote:Second, it is possible that the speed of light was greater then so that the light could have reached earth even if the stars were created then. Adam's sin affected the whole earth and apparently Satan's sin affected the rest of the universe.
O' my... Please demonstrate that the speed of light could have been greater then than it is today, and I'm pretty sure you'll be having a nice nobel week in Stockholm.
And by the way, Romans was written by Paul, who was a man, not a god.
Quote:Genesis 1:26,27 merely says that God made Adam and Eve, it doesn't say he made them at the same time, so there is no contradiction with what is said in chapter 2.
Genesis 1:27 says:
''So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them. ''
Seems to me that he created them both at the same time.
Quote:The last "contradiction" merely show that God was pleased with his creation before sin entered it and displeased after it had been corrupted by sin.
He was happy with his creation even though he knew that sin is going to come and corrupt it. It seems that he wanted sin to corrupt his creation, so he could punish them and then send himself to be killed and torchered. As an all-knowing being, he knew what was coming, but didn't change his plan, so I'd say that God is a sado-masochist.
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07-01-2011, 01:05 PM
RE: Creation
OK, besides the BRUTALLY obvious flaws here, I am compelled to bring something up. You say that the speed of light may have been faster in the past, and that could have changed. Let's assume you are correct. So before the change in the natural laws of the universe (I feel dumber for just having said that) light travelled fast enough to reach the earth from distant stars in a relatively short period. Lets say 24 hours for arguments sake. When the laws of physics changed, that "super-fast light" would slow down to what is now the "normal" speed of light. That would mean that after the light "slowed down" there would have been a period of 4.3 years where NO stars were visible in the night sky. You don't think that this would be mentioned somewhere in history, even in the bible??? This is aside from the fact that there are stars we see today whose light takes thousands of years to reach us. If the bible were true, the "slower" light of these stars would still not have reached us, because of the so-called variance in lightspeed, and would be popping up as we speak.

It really does boggle my mind, not only that you try to justify the absurd babbling of the bible, but that you actually try to come up with these rediculous explainations that are completely unfounded. I wish that christians would learn that the term "think for yourself" does not mean "make more shit up to prove that the bible is more than a fairy tale".

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08-01-2011, 10:21 AM
RE: Creation
(07-01-2011 12:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  I'm waiting until he explains how the Earth is really the center of the Universe.
I don't understand what you mean by this.

(07-01-2011 12:28 PM)Kikko Wrote:  According to Genesis 1:3-4 God created light after he created the earth. So the light of the stars could only have started their journey in the first day of creation.
It doesn't actually say he created the light. It is possible that the darkness that existed was the result of clouds or some other barrier keeping light from reaching the earth and when he said "Let there be light" he merely made the barrier thin enough so that light could get through it. Then in verse 14, when he made lights in the sky, he removed the barrier entirely so that the stars became visible from earth. In verse 16 it says he made the lights, not created them.

(07-01-2011 01:05 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  You say that the speed of light may have been faster in the past, and that could have changed.
I said that a change in the speed of light was one possible explanation. The six days only describe the creation of the earth, so it is possible that the rest of the universe was in existence before this.

I have covered this subject in more detail here:

http://www.christiandoctrinediscussion.c...ation.html

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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08-01-2011, 12:11 PM
RE: Creation
(08-01-2011 10:21 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(07-01-2011 12:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  I'm waiting until he explains how the Earth is really the center of the Universe.
I don't understand what you mean by this.

He means he wants you to explain how Earth is the center of the universe... I don't see how that's confusing at all really. Eyes on the ball bro, good luck.

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08-01-2011, 12:13 PM
RE: Creation
Discussion has officially ceased. You are saying that the bible says god made the lights, not created them?????? It is the same!

Plus the quote you took from my post is the same as what you "corrected" me with. You are really clueless. Evolution gave you a brain. Use it.

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08-01-2011, 03:40 PM
RE: Creation
(07-01-2011 12:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  I'm waiting until he explains how the Earth is really the center of the Universe.

I know a Romanian Orthodox priest who claims the Sun revolves around the Earth because no "saint" said otherwise - I can't find an English subtitled version though Sad

Still , have fun with this "debate" from the middle east where a muslim argues the Earth is flat : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc
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08-01-2011, 04:19 PM
RE: Creation
Um do I have to point out the very obvious stupidity in claiming that the rest of universe was in creation before when God talks about making "all the stars in the sky" in one day.

The book reflects the known facts of the time.
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08-01-2011, 07:48 PM
RE: Creation
(07-01-2011 11:43 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Here is something from the Biblical contradictions article on this forum:

http://thethinkingatheist.com/bible_contradictions.html

Quote:HOW DID THE STARS GIVE LIGHT TO THE EARTH?

God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

I'd like to point out two things from this quote that demonstrate that this god is dumb as shit.

First: "the lesser light to govern the night". An all-knowing god should know that the moon does not produce its own light; it reflects light from the sun. It only appears to give off light to those observing the moon from Earth at night. (During the day, when the sun and the moon are visible at the same time sometimes, the moon does not give off any perceptible light.)

Second: "He also made the stars". Wait, so our sun isn't a star? Or was our sun not made yet, and there is some other, imperceptible light that "governs the day"? How intelligent is this god, not to know that the sun is just another star? He should know, if he created all of them!

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