Creationism / Evolution
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16-03-2015, 01:32 PM
Creationism / Evolution
Hey everyone!

Is there a thread that exists already where someone has had an indepth look at the arguments for Creationism / evolution? I have watched lots of videos, but sometimes seeing the arguments side by side, or written out and explained more clearly can help.

Essentially what triggered this interest is an an e-mail I got from a family member of mine saying "I myself find it very difficult to ignore the theory of evolution. There is a lot of solid science at its bedrock. Nevertheless, there are still a lot of holes, which people ignore (the first video on carbon dating being just one of many). In short, as Ken Ham points out, there are a lot of intellectuals who are creationists. They also have some very good arguments."

This family member of mine posts two videos for me to watch:
"Carbon Dating...100% accurate right?...NOT!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmjzE9wHBUU

"Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

I had watched the Bill Nye and Ken Ham debate before. I watched it again. However, I'd love to read other people's thoughts and research break-down -- especially ones that talk about how science falls short on evidence (since I'm under the impression it does not fall short, and yet am being told it does...).

Any posts or links I could check out?

Thanks! Big Grin
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16-03-2015, 01:34 PM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
A couple of resources:

http://talkorigins.org/

http://wiki.ironchariots.org

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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17-03-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
I don't have to watch the whole 3 minutes of the carbon dating video to realize that it is a big stinking pile of shit. The title of the video takes on carbon 14 dating, but you get into the video and they start talking about rocks. Carbon 14 dating is used to date the remains of a living organisms such as wood, bone, papyrus, cloth, etc. That is because the level of carbon 14 in the environment is constant, thus living organisms that take their carbon from the environment will have the same constant carbon 14 level as the environment. Once the living organism dies, it will stop incorporating carbon 14 and the carbon 14 in that specimen will decay without being replenished. From the difference in the carbon 14 levels of the environment and the specimen, you can back calculate the age of the specimen. In the video they talk about gas evolution from molten rocks, which has nothing whatsoever to do with carbon 14 dating. Gas evolution from molten rock is critical for potasium-argon dating which is something else altogether (this seems to be what they are referring to, although they do not outright state it). This is just a lame ass video. They either do not know squat about the subject, or they are willfully trying to deceive. Carbon 14 dating is used to date the remains of living organisms, not rocks that were molten at one point.
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17-03-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
We also have a whole subforum (under "Atheism and Theism") devoted to creationism. You can probably find lots of stuff there.

On carbon dating, creationist arguments are laughable. (1) Carbon dating is only good to about 50,000 years ago. Anything older than that has had its age established by other methods (i.e., not by carbon-dating). It isn't used nearly as much as creationists think that it is. (2) Scientists who use carbon-dating are well aware of its inherent inaccuracies (which aren't nearly as large as creationists pretend they are), and they take that into account in their calculations. It's not like the creationists have discovered some huge problem that the professional scientists are unaware of. The scientists have it covered.
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17-03-2015, 05:42 PM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
Thanks Grasshopper and Iñigo for breaking down Carbon dating and related misinformation. Sometimes I find videos for or against creationism, and both tend to move so quickly without getting into details -- so this helps! I'll also check out that other forum for the devoted creationism thread.

Thanks Smile
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17-03-2015, 06:32 PM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
As a final note, since this thread exists anyways, just came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LITCCA212hg
Bill Nye VS Ken Ham: A Full Commentary

Only watched a couple minutes in, but seems like it could be a good source to listen to... I'll have to know my own facts more though before I can say he knows his stuff!

Cheers, and enjoy (if you bother watching 2.5 hours! O_O). If you do watch it -- would love to hear your comments on it here!
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17-03-2015, 07:10 PM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
You may have noticed, during the Nye/Ham debate, the big difference between a scientist and theist.

Only one will revise their opinion in light of new evidence.

Reason vs. Faith.

Which is the more pragmatic epistemology?

If you're not sure, consider which airline you'd choose...

FaithAir "We'll pray for a safe journey."
ScienceSkies "ISO9000 certified... tested...working...flying."

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18-03-2015, 06:23 AM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
It did bother me when Ken said nothing would change his mind about God O_o on one level I am sure believers are waving victory flags over that... But to me that raises a warning flag...

The airline example is humorous! Made me laugh.
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18-03-2015, 09:18 AM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
The claim that there are a lot of intellectuals who are Creationists, is simply a lie. Every single major accredited university in the entire world teaches it, and bases it's scientific research on the fact that it is the best explanation we have for what is observed. It's not even a legitimate question in real intellectual centers any longer, that it is basically true, nor has it been for decades. Those who claim otherwise are either simply ignorant or have a simplistic fundie religious agenda.




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18-03-2015, 09:22 AM
RE: Creationism / Evolution
(18-03-2015 09:18 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The claim that there are a lot of intellectuals who are Creationists, is simply a lie. Every single major accredited university in the entire world teaches it,...

I assume you mean "Every single major accredited university in the entire world teaches it evolution, ..." Shocking

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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