Creationism/Evolution
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03-02-2014, 10:42 PM
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 10:30 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 10:24 PM)Drich Wrote:  ....and it looks like the 'thinking mind' has closed for business. If your not willing to participate in the thread and answer the points and questions I asked FIRST then there is nothing more I am willing to say. If and when you wish to continue this conversation simply pick up and answer the questions I asked. Provide the proof I requested and address the point I have made. otherwise maybe you'll have better luck the next time around. hey, maybe start an ark thread with some of your points that might be fun.

I guess I do have to explain what 'burden of proof' means. Oh, well.

You see, Drich, when someone makes a claim, it is not reasonable to accept it without evidence. That is the job of the person making the claim.

You are arguing from the Bible to prove that the Bible says what the Bible says. That could not possibly be more trivial and useless.

It is therefore not incumbent on me to demonstrate to you why something you claim is not true. It is incidentally possible to debunk the many outrageous claims in the Bible, and I did in fact give you the beginnings of such answers. You are not interested in those answers.

But, I guess it's kind of cute that you pretend to want to engage in a real discussion. I've certainly never seen that sort of disingenuous posturing before.

If you wish to be taken seriously and given the time of day you need to provide evidence for the things you claim.

A: "I say X".
B: "Prove it."
A: "NO U PROOF IT WRONG FIRST TROLOLOL"

Try harder.

but that the thing sport you made a bunch of claims I asked you to prove them you said and I quote: "You first." I am simply trying to get you to verify some of the crazy stuff you posted that's all.
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03-02-2014, 10:43 PM
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 10:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 10:24 PM)Drich Wrote:  ....and it looks like the 'thinking mind' has closed for business. If your not willing to participate in the thread and answer the points and questions I asked FIRST then there is nothing more I am willing to say. If and when you wish to continue this conversation simply pick up and answer the questions I asked. Provide the proof I requested and address the point I have made. otherwise maybe you'll have better luck the next time around. hey, maybe start an ark thread with some of your points that might be fun.

There is no serious Biblical scholar in the entire world that takes any of this literally. NOT ONE.

actually there are a few looking to write a paper on it.
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03-02-2014, 10:44 PM
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 09:18 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  God created a picture of the world that...

...looked kinda like this:

[Image: Mandel_zoom_00_mandelbrot_set.jpg]

...no, Drich. God is an identity. What is not identified is not designed; creationists would applaud their creator. Dodgy



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03-02-2014, 10:47 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2014 11:08 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 10:43 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 10:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is no serious Biblical scholar in the entire world that takes any of this literally. NOT ONE.

actually there are a few looking to write a paper on it.

LMFAO.
The names are ? Of course you failed to tell us who, and where they got their educations, and where they work, and what they have written, or anything they have done. You're a total charlatan. A fraud. Shame on you.
Your presuppositional assumptions in the OP belie your ignorance. You have utterly failed to demonstrate why anyone would take one of the MANY MANY ancient creation myths seriously. The people who assembled those texts from KNOWN sources written by humans had NO CLUE what actually happened more than a few years before they wrote their texts. They thought the Earth stood on 4 pillars, covered by a "firmament", and had NO insight into human evolution, or the actual facts concerning how humans developed. Genetics PROVES your timeline is impossible. You are a hypocrite. YOU would use DNA, if it served you, yet in order to contort the facts to make your crap case, you have to ignore Genetics. Of course you are too uneducated to even know why that is true.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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03-02-2014, 10:50 PM
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 09:27 PM)Drich Wrote:  In my first real post there were at least 1/2 a dozen appeals to logical fallacy none of which were even close to their intended use or definations.

*definitions



You wouldn't know a logical fallacy if it bent you over and fucked you in the ass.


I KNOW this, because I have seen you being called on them so many times, and seen it go right over your head. And let us not forget that just today you claimed that your "question-begging" fallacy wasn't a fallacy because "no question was asked".


My Buddha, but you are a fucking idiot. Still, after all these years.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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03-02-2014, 10:53 PM
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 10:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 10:43 PM)Drich Wrote:  actually there are a few looking to write a paper on it.

LMFAO.
The names are ? Of course you failed to tell us who, and where they got their educations, and where they work, and what they have written, or anything they have done. You're a total charlatan. A fraud. Shame on you.

Their names are D-Wreck.

And maybe a couple of sock puppets he has up his sleeve.

Hobo

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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03-02-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 10:42 PM)Drich Wrote:  but that the thing sport you made a bunch of claims I asked you to prove them you said and I quote: "You first." I am simply trying to get you to verify some of the crazy stuff you posted that's all.

I'm pretty sure I already told you what 'burden of proof' means.

As ludicrously easy as it is to disprove the more idiotic Biblical narratives, I don't have to.

So long as you present literally no evidence whatsoever, no one else need bother addressing anything. Because there is nothing to address.

But just in case you aren't aware of how logic works:
When I say "there is no evidence" then that is supporting my position.
If I do not think something happened then that same lack of evidence is in fact corroborative. That there are many observations which do explicitly refute the prior examples need not even be brought up.

But, no, any time. Let's see what evidence you have for Moses and Noah.

I mean, this really oughta be good.

Right?

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03-02-2014, 11:04 PM
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 09:21 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 09:20 PM)Drich Wrote:  then why does accepting evolution preclude belief in creationism/God??
I don't think I ever said that. One of our admins (KC) is an evolutionary creationist, so it's obviously possible to believe in both.

But not sanely. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-02-2014, 11:22 PM
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 10:31 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Edit: Ah, I see cjlr got there before me about things being left behind. No worries then. Smile

Um...okay...here we go.

A big, as in really BIG group of people. All wandering along at the slowest pace of their transport (As in walking old, wounded, pregnant etc) taking 40 years to cover the relatively small distance between Egypt and the promised land. (Including the wiping out of an ENTIRE Egyptian army plus a Pharaoh?)

This is going to leave traces. Broken pots, midden pits etc. Unless...the deity closed up all their backsides...y'know, so they wouldn't leave any traces?
Ahhh, No. Have you ever heard of the lost cities of the sahara? Just short of satalite imaging of structural foundations and projections/speculation there is ABSOLUTLY Nothing left of them for us to find. The latest one, was around in the roman times.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/09/...es_sahara/

You are suggesting that the tent cities of the jews that were in the desert for only 40 years 2000 to 3000 years before this lost city of the romans would have been would still yeild what did you say pottery as evidence?!?!Laughat

Do you know what 3000+ years of sand and wind does to broken pottery? do you know what it does to solid rock? Without the stone foundations the city in the above link would be lost forever.... Kinda how a 4 to 5 thousand year old tent city would have been...

If your still insisting on pottery shards, then where are the shards for this stone city that was there for hundreds of years? And that is 2 or 3 thousand years newer?

Quote:It wasn't just a 'camping' trip. By your accounts it was effectively an entire societie's migration.
IN A sand Blasting Furnance Almost 5000 years ago. In the Same Place where Whole civlizations Stone buildings, dozens of Generations spanning hundreds of years have completely disappeared without a trace... Much less a tent city who's whole existence span less than 4 decades, who's people would have had very little ecological impact because everything they had was biodegradeable, and what was resistant to decomposition would have been consumed by shifting sands Must like whole cities were.

Quote:As for one fellow re-writing every one's books? Wow! That guy has some amazing clout to be able to tell people in Britain, America heck the rest of the world what's right and wrong. I don't think archeology works that way.
you didnot look up the good doctor did you?Sleepy
http://www.drhawass.com/
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/th...-72874123/


Quote:It still doesn't address the "There's nothing left of Eden" comment, either. Since, by your opening statements, Eden seems to have existed in the same spot for a very long time. Why hasn't it left a dent in the topography?
what makes you think it hasn't? what happens when 100 bazillion years of bio matter degrades into the earth? Oil? Fossil fuel?? Where, oh where, Could a Massive garden have been in that general area with no actual fossils ever found, but enough bio matter to supply the planet's energy needs for a few hundred years???Consider

We kinda know where it is because we know where the tigris and euphraties is located. Guestimations put the other two rivers that defined the garden in such a land mass that would cover over 2/3's of the continental US. Which is more than enough to account for the oil fields in that region.
(If you haven't figured it out I am saying the garden stood atop of the heart of the oil fields in the middle east. Which is consistant with the biblical descriptions of it, and the reason no man will ever step in the garden again.)

Quote:Besides...aren't you the side making the claim that certain things are true? So...um..aren't you the side supposedly presenting things?

Very much cheers to all.
That is what I do not understand. I am saying because of what I say in my theory, everything 'science' says can be true or not. It puts Creationist on a level playing field with the rest of you want to be monkies.Laughat
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03-02-2014, 11:23 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2014 07:08 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Creationism/Evolution
(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  Here is one I have been working on for a while. Evolutionist and creationist both hate it, so I guess I am on to something.

Oh fuck, here we go again... Dodgy


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  Very simply put, I point out their is no time line between the creation of man and the fall of man. I also point out that outside of details of creation itself everything mentioned, takes place in the Garden. Basically between the four rivers that define the garden, God created a picture of the world that would be consistent with the evolutionary progress of man at the time of the fall. Meaning God knew when Adam would fall into sin and knew He would have to expel Adam and Eve so He created the garden to reflect what the world would look like at the time of the fall. So when they left they could easily adapt and co mingle with 'monkey man.' (Or man who evolved from slime.)


[Image: 3035906.jpg]

Is there any evidence for anything you just said that lies outside of scripture? Because I must remind you that the Bible is not evidence, it is the claim.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  Evolved man or "monkey man" is man without a soul, and In the Garden Man, was created in the image of God, that would be man with a soul. In essence That would leave room for whole complete fossil record that could not be previously reconciled scripturally. It also explains the city Cain moved to, and the wives and husbands the children of Adam and Eve took for themselves. (They intermingled with monkey man/woman and pass their gift of a soul onto their children. As per Hebrew tradition that a man's "contribution" to the reproductive process is to give the body a soul.)

Please substantiate the existence of a 'soul', and once you do and have your finding verified in peer review you can then proceed to collect your Nobel Prize.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  Now I know the goto verse to disprove this is in Genesis 5:4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.

No, the go-to thing to do is to demand evidence; which is precisely what you have yet to provide. Empty conjecture is not evidence.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  In the English it seems that Adam's total existence was 930 years. But when we look at the Hebrew the word that is translated "lived" is:Chay it means:1) to live, have life, remain alive, sustain life etc... (In short God gave Him "life"/Chay at the point of creation, and then per genesis3:3 the day they ate of the fruit from the tree of knoweledge[sic] they would die. Or rather their initial Chay would be gone.) So as per Gods warning Adam and Eve died that very day, or rather the life they were orginally[sic] given at the moment they were created ended when they ate the fruit. Upon explusion[sic] from the garden Adam and Eve were to 'live' out side the garden. this word 'live is also the same word used in the 930 years adam[sic] had "lived." This word in the Hebrew is: chayay. It means 'restored life.' So the 930 years Adam lived was the time he spent outside the garden or Chayay. Adam while He lived (Chay) in the garden was immortal and the bible does not say how long he lived there.

Once again, evidence or GTFO. You're bending of the passage to read into it what you want it to say to fit your ideas is not evidence that any human actually managed to live for almost a millennium.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  How do we know they were immortal in the Garden with God? because of Genesis 2:16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;

Amongest those trees was the tree of life. What did the tree of life do?

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- in short the reason Adam was cast out of the garden was to keep Him eating from the tree of Iife.[sic] If he had never eaten from this tree, there would have been no reason to make him leave.

For fuck's sake...

Quoting scripture is not evidence, it is the fucking claim. It has be corroborated and substantiated with independent sources outside the Bible, sources which you have failed to provide.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  So to recap:
God created Man and woman and placed them in the garden. They could have been there a day before eating the forbidden fruit or they could have been there the 900 million bazillion years the scientist believe it took to evolve. Why? because there is no recorded time time between: "In the beginning" and the fall of man. Only speculation because we can count the generations back 6000 or so years.

You have still given no reason to think that any of this is remotely plausible.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  When in fact all we can really say is that man made in the image of God has been out of the Garden 6000 or so years. We know the Garden was a sanctuary, (Per Genesis 2 as it's creation was recorded seperatly[sic] than the rest of creation found in Genesis 1, and we know that God kept Man created in His image there for an undisclosed amount of time. This does not means the rest of the world did not have to evolve as the undeniable fossil record proves.

"We know the Garden was a sanctuary"

Fuck you, we do not know that. Let's also not forget that the very order of creation is different in Genesis 1 and 2 that you now quote as 'evidence'.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  Something very important to note this is NOT "Gap theory" or Creation theory as made popular in the 17 century. Even though the empty term Gap Creation theory can apply, as far as I know this is something very new.

You're right, this doesn't remotely come close to any scientific theory (it's not even a hypothesis); it's just stupid presumptuous apologetic bullshit.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  (This is creation gap theory:What is the "Gap Theory?" • ChristianAnswers.Net
In short between genesis 1:1 and 1:2 there is a whole nother[sic] version of creation story. The problem here is there is added or filler material between the two accounts. )

No, once again, the problem is a complete lack of any evidence.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  Why is it important to distance this theory from Gap creation theory?? Because it combines the unmolested Genesis account AS RECORDED IN THE BIBLE, with the evolutionary data we have discovered and can not other wise reconcile. Without Adding anything to scripture or taking anything away. This also explains several other creation "paradoxes" that atheist tend to use to disprove the genesis account.

Baseless conjecture, even if built upon your particularly favorite 1'st century book of myths, is still baseless conjecture until it is supported by evidence; none of which you have provided. Thus everything you have written so far gets remanded to the dust bin and will not be seriously considered until there is real evidence (i.e. more than just quoting scripture, which is all you've been able to do) to support it.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  I have only taken the face value account of (a literal 7 days of creation) Genesis and lined the holes up with the holes in the evolutionary account of origins and they fit together perfectly.

There are no 'holes in the evolutionary account of origins' because evolution is the theory to explain biodiversity, not the origins of life. Your combined level of ignorance and arrogance is staggering. That you'd presume to sit here and lecture to us when you yourself don't know the fucking difference between evolution and abiogenesis?

Do us all a favor and go get a fucking education. Dodgy


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  What do you think?

I think you're a retarded shill.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  I would like to refine and clean up this account of origins and start circulating it. Because there is literally nothing the atheist can say or do to disprove anything.

You have yet to provide any evidence for any of your assertions, so there is simply nothing that needs to be disproved because you have utterly failed to establish anything.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
-Christopher Hitchens


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  Their standard goto the evidence only further supports the creation account at this point.

Please do explain how a complete lack of evidence for your position validates your position. Go on, I'll wait. Drinking Beverage


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  This takes the account of "origins" out of the atheist arsenal for a legitmate[sic] reason they do not believe in God. While on the Atheist website because they saw the logic of this explanation many who originally greeted me with harsh words and complete disrespect started to ask legitimate questions.

Evidence, the complete lack of any evidence is just one of the many reasons that many self-proclaimed atheists don't believe in god(s). Many of us also don't believe in your god in particular on the grounds of logical impossibility, or have moral and ethical objections to your genocidal maniac Yahweh.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  If you like to see the actual discourse The website is atheist forums dot org. This place is not for the faint of heart there are little to no rules about what is said or seen there. It is under the religion/Christian category under drich "evolution."

No thanks, reading this stupid drivel once is more than enough. I do it so that others need not suffer.


(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  Also I been wanting to make a short video on this and post it on YouTube. With your background in technology I think that would be possible if your interested. Also while I am thinking about it I would like to talk to you about revamping our company website if that is something you do.

Are you trying to talk to Seth Andrews, the site's founder? He doesn't peruse the forums, better luck next time.

Take your shit with you, and please do let the door hit you in the ass on the way out...

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