Creationism in School
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04-01-2012, 12:13 PM
Creationism in School
I know everyone has their own point of view on this, and I'm going to guess that the majority of people on this site wish to keep Creationism out of our schools, but I came up with a great position on this subject matter.
Allow the teaching of the biblical account of creation in schools along side the theory of evolution. However, only teach them AFTER teaching the concept of Occam's Razor. Then, after teaching all three of these concepts, ask the students which makes more sense.
While this idea is laughable I am somewhat serious. Personally, I find that if two different ideas are presented by two different sources, children will just believe the source they trust more (which is usually their parents teaching Creationism). However, when different ideas are presented by the same source with the encouragement to use their own brains to determine the truth, not only do children come to the more logical conclusion, but they grow from the experience.
Opinions?

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04-01-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: Creationism in School
why not teach it in a world religions and culture class where every creation myth and religious belief is taught in an objective way
and assessed based on evidence (no evidence for a turtle holding the world on its back) and leave mythology out of the sceince classroom

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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04-01-2012, 05:08 PM
RE: Creationism in School
I only agree to teaching it if they teach every other creation idea. Every. One.
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04-01-2012, 06:04 PM
RE: Creationism in School
(04-01-2012 12:13 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  I know everyone has their own point of view on this, and I'm going to guess that the majority of people on this site wish to keep Creationism out of our schools, but I came up with a great position on this subject matter.
Allow the teaching of the biblical account of creation in schools along side the theory of evolution. However, only teach them AFTER teaching the concept of Occam's Razor. Then, after teaching all three of these concepts, ask the students which makes more sense.
While this idea is laughable I am somewhat serious. Personally, I find that if two different ideas are presented by two different sources, children will just believe the source they trust more (which is usually their parents teaching Creationism). However, when different ideas are presented by the same source with the encouragement to use their own brains to determine the truth, not only do children come to the more logical conclusion, but they grow from the experience.
Opinions?

The idea isn't really that far "out there." Dan Dennett makes a strong case for teaching "a curriculum of facts about all the religions of the world."

Seems to me, one of many problems with Creationists, is they don't want any old Creation account taught (we could recommend the Sumerian Tablets if they want to teach from those), they want Genesis taught. So they want the Bible taught as the only religious text. Dennett argues that introducing multiple texts while teaching about science and myth will remove a lot of the mystique that these ancient writings have any relevancy now.

If you're a TEDster, you might enjoy Dennett's TED Talk from 2006.

The lecture is 24 minutes. His proposal about teaching the facts of religion starts at 4:20...hehe...not making it up!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-01-2012, 06:14 PM
RE: Creationism in School
(04-01-2012 12:13 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  I know everyone has their own point of view on this, and I'm going to guess that the majority of people on this site wish to keep Creationism out of our schools, but I came up with a great position on this subject matter.
Allow the teaching of the biblical account of creation in schools along side the theory of evolution. However, only teach them AFTER teaching the concept of Occam's Razor. Then, after teaching all three of these concepts, ask the students which makes more sense.
While this idea is laughable I am somewhat serious. Personally, I find that if two different ideas are presented by two different sources, children will just believe the source they trust more (which is usually their parents teaching Creationism). However, when different ideas are presented by the same source with the encouragement to use their own brains to determine the truth, not only do children come to the more logical conclusion, but they grow from the experience.
Opinions?
This shouldn't be taught in the science class room at all... that is just nonsense.

However, if you want to teach these things in say a philosophy class or a religion class in High school, well thats fine as long as we include other religions in that scope as well. When the religious fundys in the US argue for teaching creationism in the classroom, they are actually only advocating teaching THEIR religions belief in creationism.

Such a class could actually help to create atheists, or at least open their minds to new perspectives.
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04-01-2012, 08:47 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2012 08:51 PM by Blabibla.)
RE: Creationism in School
(04-01-2012 12:13 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  I know everyone has their own point of view on this, and I'm going to guess that the majority of people on this site wish to keep Creationism out of our schools, but I came up with a great position on this subject matter.
Allow the teaching of the biblical account of creation in schools along side the theory of evolution. However, only teach them AFTER teaching the concept of Occam's Razor. Then, after teaching all three of these concepts, ask the students which makes more sense.
While this idea is laughable I am somewhat serious. Personally, I find that if two different ideas are presented by two different sources, children will just believe the source they trust more (which is usually their parents teaching Creationism). However, when different ideas are presented by the same source with the encouragement to use their own brains to determine the truth, not only do children come to the more logical conclusion, but they grow from the experience.
Opinions?

Its a great thought, but I believe that some teachers would push the students more in their favor (if you get what I'm saying). I think it would need independent class-time too. If the teachers were fair and encouraged independent research before their final decision then it could be beneficial for the children. There are many who are confused about their beliefs. Great idea.

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04-01-2012, 09:49 PM
RE: Creationism in School
(04-01-2012 12:13 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  I know everyone has their own point of view on this, and I'm going to guess that the majority of people on this site wish to keep Creationism out of our schools, but I came up with a great position on this subject matter.
Allow the teaching of the biblical account of creation in schools along side the theory of evolution. However, only teach them AFTER teaching the concept of Occam's Razor. Then, after teaching all three of these concepts, ask the students which makes more sense.
While this idea is laughable I am somewhat serious. Personally, I find that if two different ideas are presented by two different sources, children will just believe the source they trust more (which is usually their parents teaching Creationism). However, when different ideas are presented by the same source with the encouragement to use their own brains to determine the truth, not only do children come to the more logical conclusion, but they grow from the experience.
Opinions?

Most excellent idea. But there are possible problems. Creationists will object to the teaching of evolution and want just creationism. They will want evolution defined as "just a theory", and creationism defined as "the revealed truth of god". Another problem is that biologists will refuse to teach creationism. How could they? It would consist of just reading the first several chapters of Genesis. That would take about 15 minutes. Then what?

What else could we teach the students in biology class?
How about the Hindu version of creation? " The universes are made by Lord Brahma the Creator, maintained by Lord Vishnu the Preserver and destroyed by Lord Shiva (that bitch). There have been many universes and this one is one of many more to come"

Your point is well taken that exposing myths against hard evidence does sound like a fruitful venture. The point that i'll rest on is that teaching any superstitution as equal to scientific discovery is not a good idea. I think we have the science fairly well established. Evolution is fact. Creationism is folly.
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04-01-2012, 10:20 PM
RE: Creationism in School
(04-01-2012 09:49 PM)Thomas Wrote:  
(04-01-2012 12:13 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  I know everyone has their own point of view on this, and I'm going to guess that the majority of people on this site wish to keep Creationism out of our schools, but I came up with a great position on this subject matter.
Allow the teaching of the biblical account of creation in schools along side the theory of evolution. However, only teach them AFTER teaching the concept of Occam's Razor. Then, after teaching all three of these concepts, ask the students which makes more sense.
While this idea is laughable I am somewhat serious. Personally, I find that if two different ideas are presented by two different sources, children will just believe the source they trust more (which is usually their parents teaching Creationism). However, when different ideas are presented by the same source with the encouragement to use their own brains to determine the truth, not only do children come to the more logical conclusion, but they grow from the experience.
Opinions?

Most excellent idea. But there are possible problems. Creationists will object to the teaching of evolution and want just creationism. They will want evolution defined as "just a theory", and creationism defined as "the revealed truth of god". Another problem is that biologists will refuse to teach creationism. How could they? It would consist of just reading the first several chapters of Genesis. That would take about 15 minutes. Then what?

What else could we teach the students in biology class?
How about the Hindu version of creation? " The universes are made by Lord Brahma the Creator, maintained by Lord Vishnu the Preserver and destroyed by Lord Shiva (that bitch). There have been many universes and this one is one of many more to come"

Your point is well taken that exposing myths against hard evidence does sound like a fruitful venture. The point that i'll rest on is that teaching any superstitution as equal to scientific discovery is not a good idea. I think we have the science fairly well established. Evolution is fact. Creationism is folly.

How is it an excellent idea? Its a horrible idea, as your own comment suggested. Its not a topic for science PERIOD.

If you don't want to hurt his feelings, well I can kind of understand that...but lets call a spade a spade.
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04-01-2012, 11:17 PM
RE: Creationism in School
Quote:How is it an excellent idea? Its a horrible idea, as your own comment suggested. Its not a topic for science PERIOD.

If you don't want to hurt his feelings, well I can kind of understand that...but lets call a spade a spade.

Dude, sarcasm? Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Yea, it is a really fucking bad idea.
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04-01-2012, 11:57 PM
RE: Creationism in School
A lot of people talk about teaching the controversy. That seems silly to me because it's basically still about trying to get kids to accept one version and only one version as THE Truth. I think we should teach evolution in science class and Genesis in religion class. We should teach the truth. Group A believes X and group B believes Y. Fact. But to do that, both sides would have to accept that the other has the right to exist, which as of right now seems unlikely.

As far as which religious traditions should be taught, that's actually a no brainer. In Chicago, they aren't about to teach The Bhagavad Gita or the story of Zeus defeating the Titans for the same reason they aren't going to teach children Hindu or Ancient Greek. Cultural context plays a huge role in curriculum. End of story. If there's 80 million Evangelicals in the country, you teach that. Same reason I was taught French growing up.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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