Crime against Humanity? Catholicism and Condoms
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17-09-2012, 11:53 AM
RE: Crime against Humanity? Catholicism and Condoms
(16-09-2012 02:02 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Should the Catholic Church and the Pope in particular be tried for crimes against humanity for its stance on condom use in Africa?

No. And NO. And Hell NO!

Don't get me wrong, I believe that EVERYONE should should consider using condoms all the time unless they are trying to conceive a child. My two children were conceived while my wife was using birth control pills (first) and IUD (second). I love my kids but at those times we were young and not ready to start or expand our family yet and therefore using birth control that didn't work.

Even more so, I believe that EVERYONE who intends to have sex with a partner without being absolutely sure of their partner's lack of STDs should not just consider using condoms but absolutely should use them. To be safe. Heck, my wife cheated on me for years and she has since admitted that she didn't always use condoms, so she could have gotten a STD and passed it on to me since at that time we were relying on tubal ligation for birth control and therefore not using condoms.

That said, it boils down to the fact that it is not the Catholic Church nor the Pope who is causing AIDS or spreading AIDS. Neither the church nor the Pope is committing a crime. Those Africans (as well as all other people everywhere) are grown adults (using the term loosely to include teenagers making adult decisions about sexuality) and they, as adults, made the decision to have unprotected sex with a partner who might or might not be riddled with disease. That decision is risky and insane.

But it was not any church or any pope or any other organization or person who made them have sex. Nobody made the Africans (or anyone else) have unprotected risky sex.

Sure, the Catholic Church spread some really bad information that advocated not using condoms. Sure, the church told these people that condoms were bad and shouldn't be used. Sure, the information the church rammed down the throats of those Africans (and others) was unhealthy, risky, and insane. Sure, the Catholic Church was wrong. (Sure, some of this is my opinion so saying "Sure" doesn't make it a fact regardless of who agrees with me).

But misinformation is not a crime. Being wrong is not a crime.

Ultimately, the bad decision was made by the Africans (and others) to have risky unprotected sex. And because of countless applications of those bad decisions, AIDS is rampant in those countries.

What happened was tragic. It still is tragic. But it wasn't illegal.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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17-09-2012, 12:01 PM
RE: Crime against Humanity? Catholicism and Condoms
Huh, so God changed his mind. Or the Pope changed his mind. Or the organization finally listened to reason.

But now their stance makes no sense. "Condoms are OK but only to prevent the spread of AIDS; they are still not OK for contraception."

I don't get it.

I see 4 possible outcomes:

(I am using "spouse" in the Catholic sense)

1. Person having sex with spouse - no condoms allowed because there is (supposedly) no risk of AIDS.
2. Person having sex with spouse who has AIDS - are condoms allowed? Isn't this contraception AND prevention of AIDS? Which rule takes precedence? Is having an AIDS-riddled baby acceptable under the new Catholic rules?
3. Person having sex with non-spouse - are condoms allowed? We don't know if the second party has AIDS so we don't know if we're preventing the spread of AIDS. Is the Catholic Church condoning extramarital sex anyway?
4. Person having sex with non-spouse who has AIDS - condoms are allowed.

So it looks like the only clear-cut time that condoms are certainly allowed by the new rules is when a person is having sex with a non-spouse partner who is known to have AIDS. So it seems to me that the Catholic Church is only allowing condoms for this use which is, by inference, an endorsement of extramarital sex.

It still seems pretty fuzzy to me. And weird. And just as batshit as most of their junk.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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