Crime, guilt and free will
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30-11-2015, 06:43 PM
Crime, guilt and free will
Was doing some reading about the so-called "West Memphis 3" case recently.

I realize that many theists will resort to arguments about free will when pressed regarding the question of evil.

But once the evil is committed — for example, the murder of the three boys in West Memphis, Arkansas — how would it violate free will (in any meaningful way) for god to reveal, beyond any shadow of a doubt, what really happened?

In other words, JonBenet Ramsey is dead. Whoever took her life exercised his/her free will in killing her. Why would it interfere with anyone's free will (unless one becomes incredibly pedantic about it) for God to swoop in and provide absolutely incontrovertible evidence to solve the crime?

I suppose some would say this interferes with the murderer's free will to cover up his crime with lies and so on. That may be true, but how does it serve "god's purpose" in any way to leave crimes unsolved or worse, see innocent people executed or imprisoned?

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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30-11-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
.....

We are here to learn all kind of evil. Injustice or unfairness are some of them.

....

English is my second language.
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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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30-11-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(30-11-2015 06:43 PM)claywise Wrote:  Was doing some reading about the so-called "West Memphis 3" case recently.

I realize that many theists will resort to arguments about free will when pressed regarding the question of evil.

But once the evil is committed — for example, the murder of the three boys in West Memphis, Arkansas — how would it violate free will (in any meaningful way) for god to reveal, beyond any shadow of a doubt, what really happened?

In other words, JonBenet Ramsey is dead. Whoever took her life exercised his/her free will in killing her. Why would it interfere with anyone's free will (unless one becomes incredibly pedantic about it) for God to swoop in and provide absolutely incontrovertible evidence to solve the crime?

I suppose some would say this interferes with the murderer's free will to cover up his crime with lies and so on. That may be true, but how does it serve "god's purpose" in any way to leave crimes unsolved or worse, see innocent people executed or imprisoned?

Nonono.

You see, God DOES reveal these things. To his special chosen revelation-recipients.

This is how Ted Cruz knows that the recent Planned Parenthood shooting was done by a liberal transsexual, and how Pat Robertson knows that 9/11 was the fault of the gays.

BELIEVE AND BE SAVED!

Dodgy
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30-11-2015, 07:18 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(30-11-2015 06:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  .....

We are here to learn all kind of evil. Injustice or unfairness are some of them.

....

What she said.

#sigh
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30-11-2015, 07:59 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(30-11-2015 07:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 06:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  .....

We are here to learn all kind of evil. Injustice or unfairness are some of them.

....

What she said.

GM, I'm surprised at you. Agreeing with Alla?

Anyway, I'm not whining about the fact that bad things happen, only pondering how allowing those who commit the bad things get away with it serves god's purpose (theoretically; I am not a believer).

Alla, I'm always impressed at your absolute certainty about all this, evidence or not. Yes, injustice and unfairness are part of life; but what's the alleged point (in your creative personal, quasi-Mormon theology) of your assertion that "We are here to learn all kind (sic) of evil"?

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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30-11-2015, 08:16 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(30-11-2015 06:43 PM)claywise Wrote:  That may be true, but how does it serve "god's purpose" in any way to leave crimes unsolved or worse, see innocent people executed or imprisoned?

There is no god.

Read this. It is a great read.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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30-11-2015, 08:29 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(30-11-2015 08:16 PM)Banjo Wrote:  There is no god.

Read this. It is a great read.

I'm with you. I'm just interested in terms of argument and how the apologists would respond.

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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30-11-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(30-11-2015 08:29 PM)claywise Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 08:16 PM)Banjo Wrote:  There is no god.

Read this. It is a great read.

I'm with you. I'm just interested in terms of argument and how the apologists would respond.

Oh, just checked the link. Oddly, have never been able to finish "Crime and Punishment," but I think "The Brothers Karamazov" and "Notes from Underground" are both brilliant. I will finish C&P one of these days....

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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30-11-2015, 09:02 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
I can imagine an apologist saying ...

"Because god created us all, he can do whatever he wants. Even if he wanted to torture everyone forever, he could and it would be within his right to do do. I don't believe he would, but he could. When it comes to unsolved crimes, that's just gods way of trying to make us smarter so we can figure them out. Its a shame that others have to die to teach us lessons, but in the end, its all part of gods magnificent plan."

And then after the apologist says all that, you now understand its OK to bludgeon him to death, because its all part of gods plan.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-11-2015, 09:47 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
Our whole eternity depends on how we handle trials.
Two things can happen when we have trials:
1) we pass the test
2) we fail the test
The goal is to pass the test(trials). We can progress when we have trials. We can become stronger and more like Gods.


P.S. to become an innocent victim is a big trial.

God gives us true/correct principles and then we have to govern ourselves.
Mortality is very important school every god has to graduate.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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