Crime, guilt and free will
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08-12-2015, 07:53 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 07:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  To earn eternal things.

There is another galaxy headed toward ours. Nothing is "eternal" alla.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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08-12-2015, 07:57 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 07:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Oh, Girlyman, thanks for teaching me something about Mormons. Something I had no idea about. Shocking

I would never presume to teach you something about Mormons. I'm digging your experience of the LDS. Thumbsup




#sigh
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08-12-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 07:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 07:30 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Then that orphan could go on to commit mass murder, it is impossible to make a fully informed choice.
So? His moral choice have nothing to do with your moral choices.

(08-12-2015 07:30 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  This god concept is dead in the water from the very imperfections that make us human -incomplete knowledge.
We can not have complete knowledge now. We have to earn it. This is why we are here. To earn eternal things.
That is why Adam fell - to learn and to earn eternal things.

The moral choice of whomever is irrelevant, the person's inability to predict the future and thereby not have full knowledge is.

Therefore this god cannot hold anyone accountable.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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08-12-2015, 08:21 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 07:57 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 07:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Oh, Girlyman, thanks for teaching me something about Mormons. Something I had no idea about. Shocking

I would never presume to teach you something about Mormons. I'm digging your experience of the LSD. Thumbsup




FIXED

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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08-12-2015, 10:01 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
What a bunch of bullshit Alla. Naivety or stupidity. Either way you sound like a battered woman telling her friends that her boyfriend is really a nice guy if they just new the real him. You're excusing his behavior while everyone else sitting at the table is thinking, "Damn bitch just leave his ass"!
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09-12-2015, 01:29 AM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 07:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 07:30 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Then that orphan could go on to commit mass murder, it is impossible to make a fully informed choice.
So? His moral choice have nothing to do with your moral choices.

It has everything still to do with your moral choice. His moral action is caused by your moral action, you led that butterfly effect case of him becoming a mass murderer by keeping him alive with your "good" choice of feeding him to help him survive.

It's just along the lines of the Trolley Problem. Do you think it is morally the good choice to pull the level to save 5 peoples lives at the expense of killing 1 person?

(08-12-2015 07:53 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 07:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  To earn eternal things.

There is another galaxy headed toward ours. Nothing is "eternal" alla.

Yeah but the mormons have planets in the Andromeda galaxy too I bet.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-12-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
ClydeLee Wrote:It has everything still to do with your moral choice. His moral action is caused by your moral action, you led that butterfly effect case of him becoming a mass murderer by keeping him alive with your "good" choice of feeding him to help him survive.
My moral choice is be kind to ALL people. My moral choice is to feed any hungry orphan.
I repeat: moral choice is moral only when I have knowledge and understanding that I do something wrong or right.
Not to help ANY orphan when I can is immoral

What this orphan is going to become has nothing to do with my personal moral choice.
But by choosing to be kind to him I give him an opportunity to know what love and kindness and service are. I give him a chance to learn to love others and not to murder them.
If I don't feed an orphan I am taking away from him this opportunity. EVERYBODY deserves an opportunity to learn kindness and love
I don't even understand why you confuse my moral choice or your moral choice with choices of others.

If I fed an orphan the only consequence of my personal moral choice is that I feel happy(joy) and an orphan feels happy(joy) and free from suffering(hunger).
If he becomes a murderer it is not the consequence of my act of love and compassion.
ClydeLee Wrote:Do you think it is morally the good choice to pull the level to save 5 peoples lives at the expense of killing 1 person?

To safe any life is right/moral choice. It is good choice.
This situation is not about choosing between good or bad. This situation is about choosing between good and better.

So, not all our choices are between good(moral) and bad(immoral). Many choices that we make are between good(moral) and better(another moral).
ClydeLee Wrote:Yeah but the mormons have planets in the Andromeda galaxy too

I don't have perfect knowledge of that but I bet they, I mean "we", do.
Yes, there are some things that are eternal: families, love, good, evil, eternal progression of Gods

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09-12-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
TheInquisition Wrote:The moral choice of whomever is irrelevant, the person's inability to predict the future and thereby not have full knowledge is.
Moral choices are not about predicting future. Moral choices are about doing right and wrong.
TheInquisition Wrote:Therefore this god cannot hold anyone accountable.
Wrong. Those who know what they are doing (wrong) are accountable. Unless they repent. Sincere repentance brings forgiveness.
Sincere repentance is 5 steps:
1. To recognize that what I did was wrong/evil/sin
2. To confess to God and to the person against whom I sinned.
3. To say "sorry" and to ask for forgiveness.
4. Restitution. If I lied I have to say the truth. If I stole I have to give back
5. To promise never do it again.

English is my second language.
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09-12-2015, 01:46 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 10:01 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  What a bunch of bullshit Alla. Naivety or stupidity. Either way you sound like a battered woman telling her friends that her boyfriend is really a nice guy if they just new the real him. You're excusing his behavior while everyone else sitting at the table is thinking, "Damn bitch just leave his ass"!

I have no idea why you made this kind of conclusion. Not even close to what I was saying.

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09-12-2015, 02:33 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(09-12-2015 01:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
ClydeLee Wrote:It has everything still to do with your moral choice. His moral action is caused by your moral action, you led that butterfly effect case of him becoming a mass murderer by keeping him alive with your "good" choice of feeding him to help him survive.
My moral choice is be kind to ALL people. My moral choice is to feed any hungry orphan.
I repeat: moral choice is moral only when I have knowledge and understanding that I do something wrong or right.
Not to help ANY orphan when I can is immoral

What this orphan is going to become has nothing to do with my personal moral choice.
But by choosing to be kind to him I give him an opportunity to know what love and kindness and service are. I give him a chance to learn to love others and not to murder them.
If I don't feed an orphan I am taking away from him this opportunity. EVERYBODY deserves an opportunity to learn kindness and love
I don't even understand why you confuse my moral choice or your moral choice with choices of others.

If I fed an orphan the only consequence of my personal moral choice is that I feel happy(joy) and an orphan feels happy(joy) and free from suffering(hunger).
If he becomes a murderer it is not the consequence of my act of love and compassion.
ClydeLee Wrote:Do you think it is morally the good choice to pull the level to save 5 peoples lives at the expense of killing 1 person?

To safe any life is right/moral choice. It is good choice.
This situation is not about choosing between good or bad. This situation is about choosing between good and better.

So, not all our choices are between good(moral) and bad(immoral). Many choices that we make are between good(moral) and better(another moral).
ClydeLee Wrote:Yeah but the mormons have planets in the Andromeda galaxy too

I don't have perfect knowledge of that but I bet they, I mean "we", do.
Yes, there are some things that are eternal: families, love, good, evil, eternal progression of Gods

Then there is no possible moral choice, because if you actually think about it you don't have the knowledge or understanding if your moral choice is actually wrong or right.

Your view and angle makes all human choices amoral, because no human knows or understands the consequences of an action.

You're saying you don't get why this is the connection. You're claiming the only consequence is the FEELING you get... no, the action and effects on the world are also the consequence of your moral actions as well as the feelings.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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