Crime, guilt and free will
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09-12-2015, 08:54 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2015 09:15 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(09-12-2015 07:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  CLYDELEE:
I still don't parse why you think choice matters more than action.
ALLA:
Choice is an action.

CLYDELEE:
You just keep saying this is the case, not even that god or lds says it, you just keep reverting to it though. Though for your actions, you don't know what the consequence will actually be for anything, through a undeveloped view of say the butterfly effect, you are unaware of the outcomes of touching your hand to the hot stove or not. You know that you will feel the heat upon your hand but you don't know what else may change or come of that single action, which could be a multitude of things for every situation.
ALLA:
I don't have to know consequences to know if my choice(action) is right or wrong.
I know that to show compassion is right choice no matter what consequences are.
I know that to be kind is right choice no matter what consequences are.
I know that to save life is right choice no matter what consequences are.
I know that to tell the truth is right choice no matter what consequences are.
I know that to do will of God is right choice no matter what consequences are
I know that to lie to save innocent life is right choice no matter what consequences are.

This view is honestly saying if you accidentally kill a person when you're trying to do the "right" thing in helping them out, you're doing the "right" thing.

So if you see a starving child on the walkway, who is starving but still several days away from any point of death. but all you have are some peanuts, but you don't know and this little kid doesn't know, he/she's allergic to peanuts. This child all alone may die from an already weakened body now struggling with allergic swelling. Yet you walk away thinking you've done the "right" thing via your consistent claims despite your moral good action being the direct cause of the death of someone. The point is, that you don't know what actually will be saving a life or "helping" someone in the vain of goodness.

It's also like someone who has no clue how to give CPR, does it and punctures a persons lung, fatally injuring the person. That's the "right" thing? That person showed compassion regardless of the consequences. Yet there could of been several far wiser choices made by that person.

I hope you're not as literal in your view of what you deem moral in your actual real life actions, and like most people, fail to live up to some established ideal of what you state is doing the good thing. You're claim of simply showing compassion as the right thing is short-sided. And you oppose this concept of compassion being the right thing politically. It's basically a basic tenant you constantly oppose in your fear & ranting against compassion in the view of socialist goals.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-12-2015, 09:07 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
ClydeLee
This view is honestly saying if you accidentally kill a person when you're trying to do the "right" thing, you're doing the "right" thing.
Alla
Accident is not a choice. I choose to do the right thing. I don't choose accidently to kill.

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09-12-2015, 09:15 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
ClydeLee
So if you see a starving child on the walkway, who is starving but still several days away from any point of death. but all you have are some peanuts, but you don't know and this little kid doesn't know, he/she's allergic to peanuts. This child all alone may die from an already weakened body now struggling with allergic swelling. Yet you walk away thinking you've done the "right" thing via your consistent claims despite your moral good action being the direct cause of the death of someone. The point is, that you don't know what actually will be saving a life or "helping" someone in the vain of goodness.
Alla
The right choice is to help starving child.
About allergy. If he doesn't know and I don't know I have to make a choice: do I risk and try to save his life, or there is nothing else I can do and he will die anyway.
I have to decide which choice is better. In both cases I do the right thing - I am trying all I can to save a life.

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09-12-2015, 09:17 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(09-12-2015 08:08 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(09-12-2015 07:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  Give me an example, so I will understand what I have to repent about.

Being annoying?
It is very easy to fix. Ignore my posts. Thumbsup

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09-12-2015, 09:22 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
ClydeLee Wrote:It's also like someone who has no clue how to give CPR, does it and punctures a persons lung, fatally injuring the person. That's the "right" thing? That person showed compassion regardless of the consequences. Yet there could of been several far wiser choices made by that person.
To have compassion is great. But if I don't know how to give CPR the right choice(action) is to look for other ways to help. The right choice(action) is to do all I can. I don't have to do what is beyond my knowledge or experience, or ability.

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09-12-2015, 09:22 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(09-12-2015 09:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(09-12-2015 08:08 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Being annoying?
It is very easy to fix. Ignore my posts. Thumbsup

Sorry but it is beyond me to fix your problem.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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09-12-2015, 09:23 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(09-12-2015 09:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  ClydeLee
So if you see a starving child on the walkway, who is starving but still several days away from any point of death. but all you have are some peanuts, but you don't know and this little kid doesn't know, he/she's allergic to peanuts. This child all alone may die from an already weakened body now struggling with allergic swelling. Yet you walk away thinking you've done the "right" thing via your consistent claims despite your moral good action being the direct cause of the death of someone. The point is, that you don't know what actually will be saving a life or "helping" someone in the vain of goodness.
Alla
The right choice is to help starving child.
About allergy. If he doesn't know and I don't know I have to make a choice: do I risk and try to save his life, or there is nothing else I can do and he will die anyway.
I have to decide which choice is better. In both cases I do the right thing - I am trying all I can to save a life.

Including directly killing it. Yet simply not viewing your morality as so blindingly as right/wrong would save lives constantly.

Btw, "I know that to do will of God is right choice no matter what consequences are" is the reasoning of those who kill in the name of gods.

Your view of morality is horribly black & white, and not shockingly opposed to your views politically. Though there's a bag of fear and nonsensical attachment to previous views of the subjects that also applies there.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-12-2015, 09:25 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(09-12-2015 09:22 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(09-12-2015 09:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  It is very easy to fix. Ignore my posts. Thumbsup

Sorry but it is beyond me to fix your problem.
Then you are not required to do this. Thumbsup

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09-12-2015, 09:30 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
ClydeLee
Btw, "I know that to do will of God is right choice no matter what consequences are" is the reasoning of those who kill in the name of gods.
Alla
Yes, it is true. This is their reasoning.


ClydeLee
Your view of morality is horribly black & white,
Alla
No, there are bad choices, good choices, better choices and the best choices. There are neutral choices.

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09-12-2015, 10:15 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(09-12-2015 07:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  I know that to do will of God is right choice no matter what consequences are

And there you have it, the failure of every religion, including Mormonism.

Any time you assert that you know the will of god, that is a lie. All you are asserting is YOUR will and claiming that it is god's will.

Case in point, George A. Smith was going around settlements in southern Utah inciting hatred among Mormon fanatics, here were his words- "Now there had been no such preaching as that when I went away; but the Spirit seemed to burn in my bones to visit all these settlements in the southern region"

The "Spirit" told him to go around inciting this murderous hatred about a month before this powder keg finally exploded in the Mountain Meadows Massacre


If George A. Smith, cousin of Joseph Smith and one of Quorum of the Twelve Apostles was being misled by this "Spirit", why the hell do you think that any claim you make about a spirit saying stuff has any credibility?

If an original apostle from your deranged religion could be murderously wrong while claiming the "Spirit" was speaking to him, who the hell are you getting on this forum and making these absurd claims?

This is why you deserve nothing but scorn and derision, these voices in your head can command you to do anything. You would have been right there in that meadow smashing in children's faces if one of these men had told you to do so.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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