Crime, guilt and free will
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01-12-2015, 08:18 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
In regards to it being a trial, what happens in this life is pretty trivial when it precedes an eternity of bliss or whatever.

Although, with our eternal salvation on the line, you'd think God would be a little less coy about a lot of things.

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01-12-2015, 08:22 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
Why do I always hear about "free will", every time I look in my Sunday newspaper I never see a coupon for it.

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01-12-2015, 08:41 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2015 09:04 PM by bemore.)
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
I think paradoxal and complex questions like this are quite interesting.

I think they are interesting because they make you think. So if you propose this question to an unprepared theist, they probably wont have a generic answer to give to you and may, for a split second, be open to suggestion..... hence planting a seed of doubt if your quick enough Consider

Obviously to fuck with them dont say anything afterwards like "You might not think about it today as much as you will tomorrow......."

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03-12-2015, 06:12 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(30-11-2015 10:52 PM)claywise Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 09:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. to become an innocent victim is a big trial.

God gives us true/correct principles and then we have to govern ourselves.
Mortality is very important school every god has to graduate.

Ah.

I take it you are one of those who would suggest that really, if you look at it right, a 6-year-old boy who is raped is just so durn lucky, because, y'know, Alla's ad hoc horseshit about trials.

You seem sweet and pleasant, Alla. I appreciate that. But your kinda-sorta-quasi Mormon theology/morality is utterly abhorrent. Guessing, therefore, that you really aren't that nice.

And your smug certainty grows tiresome.

But hey, I'll take you over Q Cunt any day.
No, he is not lucky. He is innocent victim. Sometimes your actions can affect others in very negative way. Those people will be innocent victims because of you.
Everyone is given moral agency. If God takes away moral agency He will become Devil.
God never talked about any free will.

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03-12-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(03-12-2015 06:12 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 10:52 PM)claywise Wrote:  Ah.

I take it you are one of those who would suggest that really, if you look at it right, a 6-year-old boy who is raped is just so durn lucky, because, y'know, Alla's ad hoc horseshit about trials.

You seem sweet and pleasant, Alla. I appreciate that. But your kinda-sorta-quasi Mormon theology/morality is utterly abhorrent. Guessing, therefore, that you really aren't that nice.

And your smug certainty grows tiresome.

But hey, I'll take you over Q Cunt any day.
No, he is not lucky. He is innocent victim. Sometimes your actions can affect others in very negative way. Those people will be innocent victims because of you.
Everyone is given moral agency. If God takes away moral agency He will become Devil.
God never talked about any free will.

What do you think the definition of Free Will is?

Also, do the Mormons not believe the Serpent to be the Devil like other Christians? Because it was moreso that Devil that gave humans moral agency. How do you have a moral value of good/evil if you don't know what good/evil is because you have no knowledge of it?

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04-12-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(03-12-2015 07:20 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What do you think the definition of Free Will is?
Hmm. I can do whatever I want?
(03-12-2015 07:20 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Also, do the Mormons not believe the Serpent to be the Devil like other Christians?
LDS believe that Lucifer became Devil/Satan or fallen Son of God.
(03-12-2015 07:20 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Because it was more so that Devil that gave humans moral agency. How do you have a moral value of good/evil if you don't know what good/evil is because you have no knowledge of it?
Satan un-knowingly helped God. It was God's plan that Adam and Eve could easily partake of the fruit. God provided the tree, God provided Satan(to temped). And they(Adam and Eve) wouldn't sin by disobeying the law. Those whose eyes were not opened yet could not sin(to do evil). They also could not do anything good(righteous). All their actions were neutral before they partook the fruit.
For example, you do not know many God's laws. But you are breaking them. You do not sin. You transgress the law. There is big difference. Big difference.

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05-12-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(04-12-2015 04:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-12-2015 07:20 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What do you think the definition of Free Will is?
Hmm. I can do whatever I want?

why do you do what you want ?
what do you believe in and why do you believe it ?
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05-12-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
In the past Alla has avoided a position on "free will". She talks of "moral agency" not free will. They are not the same and moral agency does not imply free will but it may imply "free won't".

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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05-12-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(05-12-2015 01:04 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  In the past Alla has avoided a position on "free will". She talks of "moral agency" not free will. They are not the same and moral agency does not imply free will but it may imply "free won't".

WOW! I am impressed, GirlyMan. Smile
P.S. Moral agency implies that we are free to choose between good and evil. That is all. It doesn't imply anything else.
Gods never talk about free will.

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05-12-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
We are free to choose between good(life) and evil(death).
There are no more choices. They don't exist.
But we can not choose consequences.
If I choose to touch the fire I will burn my fingers or even hand. If I choose not to touch the fire I will avoid evil consequence.

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