Crime, guilt and free will
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07-12-2015, 02:28 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 02:19 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  That is vague and meaningless, give me a specific example of exactly what this alleged god sanctifies and/or does not sanctify.
God sanctifies marriage between a man and a woman.
God sanctifies such action as helping the poor.
God does not sanctify smoking tobacco.
God sanctifies sacrament.
God doesn't sanctify to hurt feelings of people.

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07-12-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 02:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  
ClydeLee Wrote:by Anything, I mean ANY Particular thing as in NOT everything. You said you didn't care about it. So you do indicate there is something you don't care about, how come?
Yes, there is something I don't care about. Is there any particular reason I have to care about term "free will"?
ClydeLee Wrote:Do you also refuse to refer to dinosaurs as dinosaurs because God doesn't call them that?
No. I do not refuse to call moral agency "free will". But I prefer to use term that God uses. If God called dinosaurs using different term I would prefer that term.

Well there is clips from Ken Ham's parish that says Dinosaurs are a made up term and not from the bible, so it shouldn't be used to talk about them.

I suppose I thought someone with a honest devotion to God would care about all of his creations and concepts.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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07-12-2015, 02:46 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 02:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(07-12-2015 02:19 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  That is vague and meaningless, give me a specific example of exactly what this alleged god sanctifies and/or does not sanctify.
God sanctifies marriage between a man and a woman.
God sanctifies such action as helping the poor.
God does not sanctify smoking tobacco.
God sanctifies sacrament.
God doesn't sanctify to hurt feelings of people.

So:

When people choose to marry, that is "moral agency" and not free will.

When people choose to help the poor, that is "moral agency" and not free will.

When people choose between smoking or not smoking, that is "moral agency" and not free will.

When people choose to engage in a ritual, that is "moral agency" and not free will.

When people choose to hurt someone's feelings, that is "moral agency" and not free will.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-12-2015, 03:38 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 02:29 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Well there is clips from Ken Ham's parish that says Dinosaurs are a made up term and not from the bible, so it shouldn't be used to talk about them.
This is silly.
But there is a reason why I use God's term "moral agency" instead of "free will".
Term "moral agency" describes better what God gave us. It is all about our moral choices. Not any other choices.
God also says that every moral choice has consequence. Good choice - good consequence. Evil/bad choice - evil/bad consequence.

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07-12-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
TheInquisition
So:
When people choose to marry, that is "moral agency" and not free will.
Alla
Yes, person has moral agency to make right choice - to marry or to make wrong choice - not to marry. Every moral choice has consequences.

TheInquisition Wrote:When people choose to help the poor, that is "moral agency" and not free will.
yes, person has moral agency to make right choice - to help the poor or to make wrong choice - not to help the poor. Those moral choices also have consequences.

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07-12-2015, 04:06 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 03:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  TheInquisition
So:
When people choose to marry, that is "moral agency" and not free will.
Alla
Yes, person has moral agency to make right choice - to marry or to make wrong choice - not to marry. Every moral choice has consequences.

Or marry someone of the same sex apparently, I really don't see the distinction between moral agency and someone making choices, the only difference is categorizing the choices into good/bad in accordance to Mormon dogma, which is ultimately futile.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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07-12-2015, 07:52 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 09:17 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I believe the question that must be answered is "Why did God give man free will in the first place?" Why is this free will so important that God would allow people to use their free will for evil?

The question that must be answered is why would you even ask that before providing sufficient evidence that there even is a god?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-12-2015, 11:30 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 03:38 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(07-12-2015 02:29 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Well there is clips from Ken Ham's parish that says Dinosaurs are a made up term and not from the bible, so it shouldn't be used to talk about them.
This is silly.
But there is a reason why I use God's term "moral agency" instead of "free will".
Term "moral agency" describes better what God gave us. It is all about our moral choices. Not any other choices.
God also says that every moral choice has consequence. Good choice - good consequence. Evil/bad choice - evil/bad consequence.

Could you define a choice that isn't a moral choice to some decree? How is any choice potentially not a moral choice?

Even buying a bottle of water can be a moral choice. If I buy a Aquafina bottle or a Fiji bottle, I am making a choice that has ramifications on effecting support of the world. Those fiji bottle purchases may increase the profits of a company that does harm to a poorer community and contaminates their water source harshly.

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07-12-2015, 11:48 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 02:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  God does not sanctify smoking tobacco.

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08-12-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
what color do I paint my house?
which school is better for me, school A or school B?
should I have a cat or not?
should I move to another state/country or not?
should I read this book first or some other book?

There are many choices that we make and have nothing to do with morality. We have free will to make them. But God doesn't really care about choices. They are not important for our salvation.

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