Crime, guilt and free will
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08-12-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 02:29 PM)Alla Wrote:  what color do I paint my house?
which school is better for me, school A or school B?
should I have a cat or not?
should I move to another state/country or not?
should I read this book first or some other book?

There are many choices that we make and have nothing to do with morality. We have free will to make them. But God doesn't really care about choices. They are not important for our salvation.

Do your ways not believe in the consequences of your outcomes? Every choice may be apart of the chain of causality.

just because in your human eye view you can't see a moral slant to it, doesn't mean a potential God couldn't and the ramifications down the line. Perhaps down the line painting the house a warm or cold color changes the mood to lash out at someone, perhaps having a cat will cause your neighbor to sneeze and crash into their garage, etc.

How do you use your judgement when you don't know what a gods judgement actually could be on these stances when he can sit above us all on his Kantian thrown judging every action via it's moral outcomes.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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08-12-2015, 06:20 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 03:14 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Do your ways not believe in the consequences of your outcomes? Every choice may be apart of the chain of causality.
just because in your human eye view you can't see a moral slant to it, doesn't mean a potential God couldn't and the ramifications down the line. Perhaps down the line painting the house a warm or cold color changes the mood to lash out at someone, perhaps having a cat will cause your neighbor to sneeze and crash into their garage, etc.
How do you use your judgement when you don't know what a gods judgement actually could be on these stances when he can sit above us all on his Kantian thrown judging every action via it's moral outcomes.
God said that when there is no Law there is no sin. When there is no Law there is no righteousness. But every choice would be neutral.
What God is saying is this: when we don't know what good is and what evil is, we can not make moral choices. They are neutral, neither right nor wrong.

If I know that my choice of color, or having a cat DEFENITELLY will cause someone to crash into their garage and I understand that this is evil to cause someone crashing then I make moral choice(right or wrong).

Conclusion: when I don't have neither knowledge nor understanding of good and evil, then I can not make right/wrong or moral choices.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
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08-12-2015, 06:24 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 06:20 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 03:14 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Do your ways not believe in the consequences of your outcomes? Every choice may be apart of the chain of causality.
just because in your human eye view you can't see a moral slant to it, doesn't mean a potential God couldn't and the ramifications down the line. Perhaps down the line painting the house a warm or cold color changes the mood to lash out at someone, perhaps having a cat will cause your neighbor to sneeze and crash into their garage, etc.
How do you use your judgement when you don't know what a gods judgement actually could be on these stances when he can sit above us all on his Kantian thrown judging every action via it's moral outcomes.
God said that when there is no Law there is no sin. When there is no Law there is no righteousness. But every choice would be neutral.
What God is saying is this: when we don't know what good is and what evil is, we can not make moral choices. They are neutral, neither right nor wrong.

If I know that my choice of color, or having a cat DEFENITELLY will cause someone to crash into their garage and I understand that this is evil to cause someone crashing then I make moral choice(right or wrong).

Conclusion: when I don't have neither knowledge nor understanding of good and evil, then I can not make right/wrong or moral choices.

It's impossible to make any choice with full knowledge of all variables involved, therefore there is no such thing as a fully informed moral choice.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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08-12-2015, 06:30 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(07-12-2015 02:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  God does not sanctify smoking tobacco.

Tobacco and coffee and alcohol are verboten, but God is silent on ephedra (Mormon tea) and marihuana and psilocybin and ayahusca and DMT and MDMA and LSD. Smokin

#sigh
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08-12-2015, 06:32 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2015 06:35 PM by Alla.)
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
So, when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit they didn't sin. They transgressed the Law. They knew that God told them not to partake the fruit but ofcouse they were free to do so, but they did not understand that it is wrong/evil/sin to disobey God. That is why God forgave them.
P.S. When our action caused someone to suffer and we had no idea about this kind of consequences we don't have to feel guilty. We will be sad, devastated, but we don't have to feel guilty.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
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08-12-2015, 06:33 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
..............

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08-12-2015, 06:40 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 06:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2015 02:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  God does not sanctify smoking tobacco.

Tobacco and coffee and alcohol are verboten, but God is silent on ephedra (Mormon tea) and marihuana and psilocybin and ayahusca and DMT and MDMA and LSD. Smokin
God is very specific on this: anything that becomes an addiction, something that has total control over me is bad for me.
The reason why God gave this law "Word of Wisdom" that we would learn to control our appetites. We learn not to become addicts to anything.
Unfortunately it is very hard. I am addicted to this forum. Yes
P.S. and dark chocolate Drooling

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I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
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08-12-2015, 06:41 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2015 06:48 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 06:33 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 06:24 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It's impossible to make any choice with full knowledge of all variables involved, therefore there is no such thing as a fully informed moral choice.

For you impossible, for me possible.

Don't know why deleted this. It's an interesting proposition. Nobody can be fully informed other than Laplace's Demon. You have sufficient material to inform your metaphysics. Others have different information requirements than you. No biggie.

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08-12-2015, 06:54 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
I deleted it because this is not what I meant to say.
What I wanted to say is this: we do not choose consequences. We can not be reliable or accountable before God Elohim for what we didn't know or didn't understand.
And we ALL have great Advocate - Yahweh or Jesus Christ or The Word.

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08-12-2015, 06:54 PM
RE: Crime, guilt and free will
(08-12-2015 06:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 06:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Tobacco and coffee and alcohol are verboten, but God is silent on ephedra (Mormon tea) and marihuana and psilocybin and ayahusca and DMT and MDMA and LSD. Smokin
God is very specific on this: anything that becomes an addiction, something that has total control over me is bad for me.

The only thing on that list that is addictive is Mormon tea. Tongue

(08-12-2015 06:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  The reason why God gave this law "Word of Wisdom" that we would learn to control our appetites. We learn not to become addicts to anything.

Might as well take the leap and go full blown stoic.

(08-12-2015 06:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  Unfortunately it is very hard. I am addicted to this forum. Yes
P.S. and dark chocolate Drooling

Habit is not addiction.

#sigh
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