Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
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01-05-2013, 03:19 PM
Re: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
The reason I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here is that so often the case (I've seen it in the debates here quite frequently) is that when someone uses the improper nomenclature associated with statistics and probabilities, the opposition find themselves perfectly justified to dismiss you. Even if what you are saying is underpinned in fact, the technicalities afford them the excuse that "this person doesn't understand statistics, so their argument is wrong."

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01-05-2013, 03:20 PM
RE: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
Anyone know a reliable site to find out how many people died of gun violence in 2012? All I get using google is the far right's or left's "you're with us or against us" horseshit; they just won't spit it out Undecided 579, 689 people died of heart disease in 2012 = cut, dry, bangcon, there it is. No count on guns, though.

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01-05-2013, 03:21 PM
Re: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
Fbi.gov has all the numbers.

It can take a bit to sort through it all though. I've done a little with it, but there is a lot to digest.
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01-05-2013, 03:22 PM
Re: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
It seems like the official site associated with the secretary of state does too.
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01-05-2013, 03:28 PM
RE: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
(01-05-2013 12:19 AM)Weeeeee_Zard Wrote:  I live in Oakland, thugs do as they wish because we all know they might be carrying a gun. So this lil assholes with falling pants get away with shit that would have their asses kicked in a rush otherwise.

If they knew that everyone is potentially carrying a gun as well... they might be a bit more respectful.... then I doubt the shitty attitude will be there.

Criminals do as they wish because they have guns, we don't OC or CC here so we are to their mercy, police have guns too that's why you call them in... Although, good luck with that in this town, they never show up.

There is armed mofos out there braking into houses and robbing cafes and restaurants. They would be less likely to do so if they knew their victims were armed.

I don't have firearms but I don't see the point of taking away weapons or ammo from legal owners when the fucking gangs and thugs are not gonna put theirs down. That is just plain stupid.

Plus, when the army took power in my country and killed our socialist president they did it successfully because the civilians weren't armed. Even if they wanted to fight them back, they were screwed. Know history to know destiny.

There is far more death in this country because of poor diet and sedentary lifestyle. So, fast food, sodas, ice cream and obesity should be a crime.

And to end, passionate murders due to jealousy are pretty popular. Monogamy should be illegal too.

While I'm sure that the majority of the criminals who carry guns don't really want to use them on anybody, or are afraid to... I'm also sure that some of those criminals wouldn't really care about using those guns on someone.

So if EVERYBODY carried, maybe the number of crimes would go down, but I would also bet that those guys who don't mind killing, would now have more reason to do so, and without warning... seeing as the victim now has the ability to shoot back.

I live in Canada, where the few guns I have seen were mostly long guns, and mostly legal. Only ever seen 2 illegally obtained handguns... And never anybody carrying a gun in public (aside from police)
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01-05-2013, 03:45 PM
RE: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
(01-05-2013 02:19 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 01:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are many cases of an armed person stopping a criminal. Statistics are hard to find.

Article #1
Article #2
Article #3

I am 5'4", 145 lbs., and not young. I live in a rural setting, my house is not visible to neighbors, my property abuts 500+ acres of public land.

In a medical emergency, the response to my 911 call was about 15 minutes. That was when the police arrived; the ambulance followed a couple of minutes later.

Had this been a break-in and I was able to call 911, I would have been in mortal danger for that amount of time.

I have the right to defend myself, and a gun is the best tool for the job.

It is statistically improbable you will ever find yourself in such a situation in which you would need to defend yourself against an assailant armed with a firearm considering your location, not even considering the fact that you are more probable to be killed by your own firearm before you are able to do so. I do not even want to debate about how rare it would also be for the average thief to actually kill you, since their reasoning for even possessing a firearm would simply be to coerce you into handing your belongings over. You are more likely to be killed if you provoke the criminal in the first place.


It is not more probable that I will be killed by my own firearm - you are once again misusing statistics.

If an armed intruder shows up, he gets shot. There will be no coercion by him or provocation by me.

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01-05-2013, 03:52 PM
Re: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
See :coffee:
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01-05-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
(01-05-2013 03:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 02:19 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  It is statistically improbable you will ever find yourself in such a situation in which you would need to defend yourself against an assailant armed with a firearm considering your location, not even considering the fact that you are more probable to be killed by your own firearm before you are able to do so. I do not even want to debate about how rare it would also be for the average thief to actually kill you, since their reasoning for even possessing a firearm would simply be to coerce you into handing your belongings over. You are more likely to be killed if you provoke the criminal in the first place.


It is not more probable that I will be killed by my own firearm - you are once again misusing statistics.

If an armed intruder shows up, he gets shot. There will be no coercion by him or provocation by me.

This is one of the things I was referring to when I said that the pro-gun side tended to be selfish.

I need a gun so I have the opportunity to shoot someone on the very rare chance that I am at home when an intruder decides to break into my home. The fact that to do so means that we need to flood society with guns and have all the negative aspects of it is less important than Me being able to have the upper hand in this hypothetical situation.

I'm not saying I don't understand the desire here just that the costs are too high.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-05-2013, 04:43 PM
RE: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
(01-05-2013 03:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 03:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is not more probable that I will be killed by my own firearm - you are once again misusing statistics.

If an armed intruder shows up, he gets shot. There will be no coercion by him or provocation by me.

This is one of the things I was referring to when I said that the pro-gun side tended to be selfish.

I need a gun so I have the opportunity to shoot someone on the very rare chance that I am at home when an intruder decides to break into my home. The fact that to do so means that we need to flood society with guns and have all the negative aspects of it is less important than Me being able to have the upper hand in this hypothetical situation.

I'm not saying I don't understand the desire here just that the costs are too high.

Self defense is selfish? OK.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-05-2013, 04:58 PM
RE: Crimes Stopped by having a Gun
(01-05-2013 04:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-05-2013 03:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is one of the things I was referring to when I said that the pro-gun side tended to be selfish.

I need a gun so I have the opportunity to shoot someone on the very rare chance that I am at home when an intruder decides to break into my home. The fact that to do so means that we need to flood society with guns and have all the negative aspects of it is less important than Me being able to have the upper hand in this hypothetical situation.

I'm not saying I don't understand the desire here just that the costs are too high.

Self defense is selfish? OK.

When there are other factors yes. Selfish isn't necessarily bad either. Effectively what you are saying is you can take a life to protect your own and your possessions. Nothing is more selfish than that, picking your own life over another.

There might be a semantics thing here maybe I am using the wrong word. What I mean is this the pro-gun side is far more interested in their individual ability to own a gun than the negative impact that gun ownership has on society. I think Selfish works under that definition.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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