Criticising Islam
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29-10-2013, 07:42 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 05:34 AM)Youkay Wrote:  I'm afraid you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to say that talking about the current situation is not valid. In fact, it is very essential to draw attention to the mistreatment of women, the inequality, the violence, etc.
However, it is very easy for a Muslim to counter that: "They are living the religion wrong" And therein, nothing you say or present...

All I meant is that it would be more effective to criticize the religion itself instead of the people who live it. I mean, that is exactly what we are doing when dealing with Christians and has proven most effective.

I find this ineffective. "You are taking it out of context" and "you are interpreting it wrong" is what I get in response to direct criticism of the bible.

What *i* find most effective is when I point out the logical fallacies. For example, the argument of where our morals come from. I ask the person if they believe that the only thing stopping them from stabbing me in the heart, stealing my car and raping my daughter as the spoils of conquest is their fear or hell or an eternal reward from refraining. Or, alternatively, if they think it's immoral to kill your son because someone asked you to (they say no) then you are already making moral judgments without god. It gets them thinking. That I found is the most effective way to argue.

Everyone has a different style. I'm not a member of the intellectually elite, but I am an academic. I find that when people blither on using jargon (like chippy for example) it's ineffective because most people do not understand. Then it becomes more of a pissing contest of "I'm smarter therefore you should defer to my way of thinking.."

I could drone on and on about economic theory, using complicated explanations, complete with the mathematical algorithms, that make someone's eyes glaze over. *that* doesn't make me smarter than them because I understand and they don't. All it does it shut down the conversation because the layman can't actively participate.

Speaking purely for myself, I prefer to communicate something using "blue collar intelligence" because that is - unfortunately - the audience of the majority of the deeply indoctrinated religious.
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29-10-2013, 08:10 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
To point out logical fallacies is surely a very good way to make people rethink their religion.

Since you mentioned the logical fallacy of religion derived morality: I actually opened a thread in which I shared a very good TED talk by Sam Harris on exactly this topic. You can find it here.

I have never heard a Muslim bringing up this argument of a Quran derived morality. I would be happy if they would. Or if they refuted evolution or anything, that would be great. But I only ever hear them say what a great religion it is, because it dignifies women, values science and progress, and so on and so forth. Consequently, I need to prove just the opposite. That was my main motivation to start this thread.

Have you ever debated a Muslim? Or does anyone have experience in this?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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29-10-2013, 08:28 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
There's been this image circulating in the internet (FB is where I saw it first):

[Image: 1378864_528930730535082_1761567267_n.jpg]

Is there actually a verse (or verses) to confirm this image? The alcohol part is something I already know. The first part though, I'm completely ignorant of.

Thanks!

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
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29-10-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
I had to laugh so hard! It is really mean, but then again so funny. I don't know if I should feel bad for laughing Big Grin

Anyways... I am not going to look it up. It is very time intensive to do all this, and I don't see how looking that up is relevant.


Big Grin

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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29-10-2013, 09:21 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 08:28 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  There's been this image circulating in the internet (FB is where I saw it first):

[Image: 1378864_528930730535082_1761567267_n.jpg]

Is there actually a verse (or verses) to confirm this image? The alcohol part is something I already know. The first part though, I'm completely ignorant of.

Thanks!

Merkins Rolleyes

I don't like it anyway - I know it's a joke, but they're calling *every* Muslim a terrorist... it's... just kinda stereotypical red-neck...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-10-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 09:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  Merkins Rolleyes

I don't like it anyway - I know it's a joke, but they're calling *every* Muslim a terrorist... it's... just kinda stereotypical red-neck...

I was gonna agree with you (hey, I have a very dear Muslim friend), but I think they are making fun of Merkins, too (with their pathetic "patriotism", cliché-ridden brains and total ignorance of the world outside their borders, to name but a few things)

Then again, I am prone to thinking that people can't possibly be as stupid as they appear to be, so... who knows...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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29-10-2013, 11:56 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(28-10-2013 02:54 AM)Youkay Wrote:  I have a very good Quran at home, with an index that allows me to quickly identify passages that refer to certain topics. Also, it is a translation with remarks on how a word could have been translated otherwise or what additional meaning that word has in arabic.

Would you be willing to share where you bought it??
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29-10-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
Quote:forsake them in bed


What exactly does this mean?
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29-10-2013, 12:07 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2013 12:10 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 09:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 08:28 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  There's been this image circulating in the internet (FB is where I saw it first):

[Image: 1378864_528930730535082_1761567267_n.jpg]

Is there actually a verse (or verses) to confirm this image? The alcohol part is something I already know. The first part though, I'm completely ignorant of.

Thanks!

Merkins Rolleyes

I don't like it anyway - I know it's a joke, but they're calling *every* Muslim a terrorist... it's... just kinda stereotypical red-neck...

Isn't a merkin a wig for your pubic area? If so, other than the giggle effect, I totally don't understand your use of the word here...
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29-10-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 12:05 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
Quote:forsake them in bed


What exactly does this mean?


Deny sex, no?
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