Criticising Islam
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29-10-2013, 12:17 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 11:56 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Would you be willing to share where you bought it??

My mother gave it to me as a present to win me over. I would say it backfired. It is not in English, so it won't be of as much help to you.

(29-10-2013 12:05 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
Quote:forsake them in bed
What exactly does this mean?
Most likely it means not to have sexual intercourse with them.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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29-10-2013, 12:21 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 12:11 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 12:05 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  What exactly does this mean?


Deny sex, no?

I thought this was it, but I was under the impression from some of my friends (who are Muslim) that Islamic women do not admit to having sexual desires not even to their husbands. Doesn't seem like much of a punishment to me....
Maybe that is more of a social stigma that makes them think that it's inpure for a woman to like sex, and not so much a religious thing I don't know.
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29-10-2013, 12:37 PM
RE: Criticising Islam





Robert Spencer on Did Mohammed Exist.

The book is better than this short video. He actually delves into various archaeological artifacts and inscriptions and goes much further into the linguistic evidence in the book.

I never thought much of the koran. Just another religious foundation story designed to overawe the dolts like the bible but coming about in the 6th century or 7th century we at least have a chance of seeing where this nonsense arose.

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29-10-2013, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2013 04:11 PM by kim.)
RE: Criticising Islam
(28-10-2013 07:43 AM)Youkay Wrote:  It says "women who disobey" the husband, and the husband is an authority in marriage. That means that if the woman does anything which disagrees with the husband's orders, it is punishable by beating.

It is only your assumption that the divorce part is in there for men who are fed up with their property. However, the regulations described for a divorce according to the Quran are quite OK by todays standards. it says that women also have a right to divorce and remarry. Of course the enforced regulations are not as modern, but still they are nothing to focus criticism on.

Would a woman really have the right to divorce? Would she not be "disobeying" the husband if she wanted a divorce, since the husband is the authority in the marriage? If the wife wants a divorce, I might think she is shit out of luck and she might even be beaten for trying to obtain a divorce.

If I were to argue this point with a Muslim person, I'd have to be shown statistics of divorces filed by women. Those would probably be the women who are able to leave the house during the day without a male member of her family escorting her.

What is mandated in that book, does not always match up with what goes on in reality.<-- I would say that about ANY religious or so called holy book.

(28-10-2013 07:43 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Our goal (or my goal rather Smile) is to achieve an understanding of the quran to be able to criticize it as efficiently as I can criticize the bible. Bias and assumptions won't do us a favor in that aspect.

I might agree to a certain extent but I have argued with a Muslim and the very first thing they ask is, "Have you read the Qur'an?"... and then they proceed to advise that the only authority is the "unaltered and unalterable" - meaning; written in the original language. Advising "no" gets one nowhere.

(29-10-2013 05:23 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Things I found about what to do with atheists:
3-56:"As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."
It would surprise a few to learn that the context of this verse is "Those who disbelieve in Jesus"

This is not surprising at all; Muslim belief holds that Jesus was a profit. From what I've gathered, the Qur'an is somewhat a cut and paste job - there are many similarities between it and the old and new testaments of the Bible and other Jewish holy books. Many of the stories are the same, they just have the more local traditions inserted to make everything mesh up with the culture it's designed to manipulate.
***
My knee-jerk reaction to your thread title, Criticizing Islam is to say, Fuck Islam; that really would be my critique of any religion. However, I would like for reason and logic to replace superstition as the honest, thoughtful, and more helpful way to live with my fellow human beings. Unfortunately, many religious books have their fail-safe methodology written into the works... most of them, including the Qur'an, become their own training manual for circular thinking. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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29-10-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 08:28 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Is there actually a verse (or verses) to confirm this image? The alcohol part is something I already know. The first part though, I'm completely ignorant of.

(29-10-2013 08:34 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Anyways... I am not going to look it up. It is very time intensive to do all this, and I don't see how looking that up is relevant.

I think Cheap is asking if there is something in the Qur'an stating:
It is a sin for a Muslim man to view any woman naked other than his wife.
If a Muslim man views a woman naked other than his wife, he must commit suicide.

I wouldn't mind knowing if that's there. Consider
I bet there are a quite a few Muslim men who need to think about killing themselves. Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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29-10-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(28-10-2013 02:54 AM)Youkay Wrote:  <snip>
It is different with Islam, however. Mostly, our arguments are based on stereotypes, manipulative media and impressions we have from terrorist attacks.
<snip>

You say that we criticise Islam with arguments based on stereotypes, manipulative media and impressions we have from terrorist attacks.

Can you show a post of this kind ?

(28-10-2013 02:54 AM)Youkay Wrote:  <snip>
I am offering you this service: If you want to know what the Quran says about something, you can ask me and I can look it up and tell you which passages are relevant for that particular topic. You can then read the english translation for yourself here.

Why do you think that we need you to understand the Qur'an ?
if a person will understand it. He/She can learn Arabic (Fosha). Also this person can read many translations in his own language.
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29-10-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 12:07 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Isn't a merkin a wig for your pubic area? If so, other than the giggle effect, I totally don't understand your use of the word here...

Teehee Big Grin Merkin is Brit inside joke, quite old - refers to American... You're one of few who twigged Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-10-2013, 03:38 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2013 08:33 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Criticising Islam
Does your Qur'an have the Satanic verses ? Tongue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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29-10-2013, 03:50 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
Can you tell me if there is anything in the Quran that a) encourages them to convert outsiders and/or b) encourages them to force non-believers to live by Islamic law?
What does it say about free will? Is there anything similar to OT vs NT? Do they make exceptions for following laws and cultural rules depending where you live?
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29-10-2013, 03:58 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
By the way Youkay, thanks so much for providing the link to that Qur'an translation site. It's very readable and organized - much more so than what I have run across before! Thumbsup

Not that I would urge anyone to actually read the ridiculous thing. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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