Criticising Islam
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29-10-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 01:32 PM)kim Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 08:28 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Is there actually a verse (or verses) to confirm this image? The alcohol part is something I already know. The first part though, I'm completely ignorant of.

(29-10-2013 08:34 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Anyways... I am not going to look it up. It is very time intensive to do all this, and I don't see how looking that up is relevant.

I think Cheap is asking if there is something in the Qur'an stating:
It is a sin for a Muslim man to view any woman naked other than his wife.
If a Muslim man views a woman naked other than his wife, he must commit suicide.

I wouldn't mind knowing if that's there. Consider
I bet there are a quite a few Muslim men who need to think about killing themselves. Dodgy

Thanks, Kim. That was pretty much what I was asking.

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29-10-2013, 10:25 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2013 10:39 PM by Revenant77x.)
RE: Criticising Islam

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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29-10-2013, 10:34 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2013 10:46 PM by Youkay.)
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 08:28 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  There's been this image circulating in the internet (FB is where I saw it first):

Is there actually a verse (or verses) to confirm this image? The alcohol part is something I already know. The first part though, I'm completely ignorant of.

Thanks!

It is a pointless appeal. All that this information is good for is to validate a childish argument. The time investment would not be worth the effort. If you are so eager to waste your time on childish games like "oh, you looked at a naked woman, now you have to commit suicide, or you are not a Muslim", then go ahead. I don't want to be part of it.

(29-10-2013 01:57 PM)viocjit Wrote:  You say that we criticise Islam with arguments based on stereotypes, manipulative media and impressions we have from terrorist attacks.

Can you show a post of this kind?

That is just plain obvious. When people start talking about Islam, first thing they do is referring to stereotypes and terrorists.

(29-10-2013 01:57 PM)viocjit Wrote:  Why do you think that we need you to understand the Qur'an ?
if a person will understand it. He/She can learn Arabic (Fosha). Also this person can read many translations in his own language.

I'm not forcing you. I am just offering the service of assistance. If you do not want to benefit, it's your decision. Also I have made it explicitely clear why I think it is essential to be familiar with a matter to criticise it. See previous posts.

(29-10-2013 03:50 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Can you tell me if there is anything in the Quran that a) encourages them to convert outsiders and/or b) encourages them to force non-believers to live by Islamic law?
What does it say about free will?

So far, I have found quite a few verses and already posted some in this thread. I will be looking for free will and post my finding.



Muslims are generally peaceful and do not live explicitely by the Quran, unless they are of the fundamentalist kind. I do not approve of people who are biased in their appraisel of religions. Especially, if they claim to be atheists.

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30-10-2013, 05:58 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 10:34 PM)Youkay Wrote:  Muslims are generally peaceful and do not live explicitely by the Quran, unless they are of the fundamentalist kind. I do not approve of people who are biased in their appraisel of religions. Especially, if they claim to be atheists.

Please explain "biased in their appraisel of religions". Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-10-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
letting prejudice dominate their evaluation of different religions

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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30-10-2013, 07:41 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(30-10-2013 07:30 AM)Youkay Wrote:  letting prejudice dominate their evaluation of different religions

Are you referring to attitudes to the followers of religions or to the tenets of religions?

I see prejudice in people's attitudes towards the people, not so much towards the religions.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-10-2013, 07:51 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(29-10-2013 10:34 PM)Youkay Wrote:  It is a pointless appeal. All that this information is good for is to validate a childish argument. The time investment would not be worth the effort. If you are so eager to waste your time on childish games like "oh, you looked at a naked woman, now you have to commit suicide, or you are not a Muslim", then go ahead. I don't want to be part of it.

You can interpret it that way. That's not how I meant it.

How I meant it was "Is there actually something of the like stipulated within the Quran?" There are silly things in the Christian bible such as Deuteronomy 22:11 "Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together." and they have been quoted to show the absurdity of the beliefs at the time. In no way do I think people of today consider the rule to mean that if one doesn't follow it, they are not a true Christian. It's more that it's actually in the bible which warrants a moment of consideration to the validity of the scripture - from when it was written, to today. If the scripture isn't valid anymore, what makes the rest of the scriptures valid? Same can be applied towards the Quran.

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30-10-2013, 09:02 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(28-10-2013 07:11 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  I heard that translations simply won't due, you have to read it in arabic.
Admittedly all I know of Islam is of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's autobiography Infidel. The news about muslims marching to pass legislation to stop criticisms of Islam and also about the call for blood in response to cartoons. Also a few others that don't paint a very pleasing picture.

I have heard that from many Muslims, yet these same Muslims all agree that the "message" of the Quran translates extremely well in English.

From all my studies, the singular reason why Muslims state that the Quran should be read in Arabic is only because of what they say is "the beautiful poetic prose cannot be appreciated in the English translation."

So, at the end of the day the only reason they say the Quran is better in Arabic than in English is because of the poetry, and not because the actual message of the Quran cannot be understood in the English language.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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30-10-2013, 10:03 AM
Criticising Islam
Did the prophet fly away on a flying horse?
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30-10-2013, 11:25 AM
RE: Criticising Islam
(28-10-2013 09:22 PM)Youkay Wrote:  Still, if you do not do the research for yourself, you can accuse Islam of being violent or based on hatred and so on. You can also pick individual threats and crimes committed. But you can not back up your accusations by any means except for your reference to Wafa Sultan, which is very weak.

Due to the wars the earliest Muslims had with both the Christians and the Jews during and immediately after the life and death of Muhammad, the seed of disrespect and bias against both Christians and Jews was planted, and from the tree that sprung up from that seed we see many branches of Islam.

The biggest branch of Islam is the Sunni. This sect propagates complete disrespect for Christians and Jews insomuch as it can easily and accurately be construed as hatred.

For example, the most widely distributed Quran- the Hilali-Khan Qur’an Translation- comes from in the homeland of Islam; Arabia. It is sponsored by the Saudi government and is provided free. This particular Quran contains such numerous entries as the following:

"Guide us to the Straight Way. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).” (HK translation 1:1-7)"

As you can see, the text was interpolated to reflect an interpretation that clearly promotes bias against both the Jews and the Christians. This bias has been brewing for centuries and has been taught from generation to generation.

So why?

It is because Muslims are very hooked on "tradition" and this includes traditional interpretations of the Quran. Unfortunately, these traditions do indeed propagate a specific measure of intolerance towards those of other faiths, and particularly against those who have no faith at all, such as atheists.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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