Criticising Islam
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30-10-2013, 12:47 PM
Criticising Islam
   
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30-10-2013, 12:52 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2013 12:59 PM by onedream.)
Criticising Islam
There's a very concentrated PR campaign being trotted out by Islam that tries to paint it as progressive and peaceful. But the truth is, Islam blesses its adherents who lie to the infidels about the truth of Islam. I've heard Muslims say that lying about the true agenda of Islam is justified if it results in a favorable public view of the Prophet and Islam.

It's undeniable. Real Islam is incompatible with Western ideas and definitions of freedom.
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30-10-2013, 01:16 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(30-10-2013 12:52 PM)onedream Wrote:  <snip>
But the truth is, Islam blesses its adherents who lie to the infidels about the truth of Islam. I've heard Muslims say that lying about the true agenda of Islam is justified if it results in a favorable public view of the Prophet and Islam.

This is right we call this form of religious dissimulation "taqiya (Arabic : تقية)". Many "maliki sunni muslims" that I know say that only shi'a Muslims practice it. But others "maliki sunni muslims" that I know reknown its existence undirectly.

(30-10-2013 12:52 PM)onedream Wrote:  <snip>
It's undeniable. Real Islam is incompatible with Western ideas and definitions of freedom.

This is right but what do you call "Real Islam" ?
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30-10-2013, 01:33 PM
Criticising Islam
It's easier to say what real Islam isn't. It isn't this modern interpretation that they try to sell us on.
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30-10-2013, 07:03 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
(30-10-2013 01:33 PM)onedream Wrote:  It's easier to say what real Islam isn't. It isn't this modern interpretation that they try to sell us on.

I'm OK with you.

1.Can you cite the name of a Muslim apologist who accept "evolution theory" like a scientifical fact ?

I don't know any Muslim apologist who accept evolution theory like a fact. If you know the name of one of them I would like to know it.

2.Do you know any Muslim apologist who think that the "Qur'an" isn't litteraly the words of Allah ?

I don't know a Muslim apologist who said that. If you know a Muslim apologist who think it I would to know his name.

3.Do you know any Muslim apologist who accept the next historical truth who is that the Quran of today isn't the original ?

I wait your answer.

Conclusion : If we answer rightly to these three questions we can easily understand that Islam is a religion of obscurantism (all religions are obscurantists but Islam is at a level of obscurantist that I can't define) because Muslims continue to believe in bullshit even with strong evidences against these false beliefs. Also if we read the Koran and ahadith (mainly those contain in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih al-Muslim) we can see that "Islam = stupid beliefs , stupid rules and violence".
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30-10-2013, 07:22 PM
Criticising Islam
Well spoken. VERY WELL SPOKEN.
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30-10-2013, 07:26 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
Sorry, youkay, I haven't seen you criticize Islam in this thread. It seems like you get upset when others criticize Islam. Am I missing something here?

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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30-10-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: Criticising Islam
What does it say about Djinns, like my buddy Iblis here?
[Image: iblis.jpg]
Do muslims today really believe in djinns? This is why I can't take religions seriously, not only are you required to believe in a god but also a whole host of supernatural creatures.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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31-10-2013, 07:42 AM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2013 08:20 AM by Youkay.)
RE: Criticising Islam
(30-10-2013 07:26 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Sorry, youkay, I haven't seen you criticize Islam in this thread. It seems like you get upset when others criticize Islam. Am I missing something here?

You are not reading the thread properly. You can find me criticizing in these instances:
Quote:For instance, a lot of people talk about the Jihad. The At-Tawbah speaks about it. It starts with how a Muslim shall not fail his god and kill polytheists. Then it says, if a polytheist wants protection to hear the word of God, grant him that. If he converts, let him be. Because God is righteous, merciful and forgiving.

I think he is a hypocrite.
Quote:
Quote:Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people

Actually, "them" refers to polytheists, who have committed crimes by averting people from the way of God. But it is easy to take this and apply it to monotheists as well.
Quote:What I get from the Al-Baqarah passages that I quoted earlier is:

- God only speaks to men and tells men what to do
- men are superior to women
- divorce is OK (I am so surprised!) wow, it even says to be graceful, and give half of what you have to them and such things. Lol. Quran is actually quite OK when it comes to divorce Big Grin
- in jurisdiction a man is worth two women

Shocking
Quote:@DLJ
My translation says that "women who disobey", so it is in accordance with what you said. I don't agree with your specific association however. I think your conclusion in this is 1) biased and 2) an understatement.

It says "women who disobey" the husband, and the husband is an authority in marriage. That means that if the woman does anything which disagrees with the husband's orders, it is punishable by beating.

This whole reply

This whole reply


And so on. Seriously! How the F did you not see me criticising Islam? Only because I am asking for sophisticated, and not biased criticism?






(30-10-2013 07:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  Are you referring to attitudes to the followers of religions or to the tenets of religions?

I see prejudice in people's attitudes towards the people, not so much towards the religions.
I see both. Onedream is a very good example. This is not a point that we have to agree on, so let's keep moving Smile






(30-10-2013 07:51 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  How I meant it was "Is there actually something of the like stipulated within the Quran?" There are silly things in the Christian bible such as Deuteronomy 22:11 "Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together." and they have been quoted to show the absurdity of the beliefs at the time. In no way do I think people of today consider the rule to mean that if one doesn't follow it, they are not a true Christian. It's more that it's actually in the bible which warrants a moment of consideration to the validity of the scripture - from when it was written, to today. If the scripture isn't valid anymore, what makes the rest of the scriptures valid? Same can be applied towards the Quran.

Sorry for my wrong accusations then. I think it might be difficult to find. If I stumble upon it, I will let you know.






(30-10-2013 07:03 PM)viocjit Wrote:  Conclusion : If we answer rightly to these three questions we can easily understand that Islam is a religion of obscurantism (all religions are obscurantists but Islam is at a level of obscurantist that I can't define) because Muslims continue to believe in bullshit even with strong evidences against these false beliefs. Also if we read the Koran and ahadith (mainly those contain in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih al-Muslim) we can see that "Islam = stupid beliefs , stupid rules and violence".

I only disagree with you saying that you think Islam is even more stupid than Christianity. I don't think so. And there are plenty of bible verses I think are more violent and terrible than in the Quran (in fact, I am posting the most cruel things I find right here)






I still have to look up previous requests about Djinn's and free will. Just didn't have the time yet.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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31-10-2013, 01:00 PM
Criticising Islam
Arguing about which religion is more stupid is like arguing about whether John Lennon is more dead than JFK.
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