Cross monument at Ground Zero
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-07-2014, 07:53 PM
Cross monument at Ground Zero
As some of you might have read or heard today, a federal appeals court has thrown out the case put forth by the American Atheist in protest of the cross monument at the National September 11th memorial. Apparently, the monument was made from a 17 foot crossbeam made out of the wreckage of the twin towers. You can read more about it here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/grou...-1.1883174
I will share my thoughts with y'all and hopefully start a good discussion.
1. The three judges argued ruled that the monument was more of a "genuine historical artifact" than a symbol of Christianity. Yes, it certainly tells a story of how people of faith found hope after the terrible tragedy of 9/11. But it cannot possibly be called a secular symbol given the immense religious significance of the cross. The judges phrased their decision as if the cross referred to no faith whatsoever, that it was a general symbol of how "faith" gave people hope after 9/11, but it is obvious what religion the cross represents.
2. What happened to the uproar over Park 51, the Islamic community center built two blocks away from ground zero. People staunchly opposed the center because Muslims carried out 9/11, yet the center is committing to tolerance and interfaith dialogue. The center is not even visible from ground zero, but somehow an overtly Christian symbol is acceptable at the memorial? It just shows how powerful Christian privilege is in this country.
3. The very idea of the cross as a symbol of hope is ridiculous. Think of how many thousands of cross shaped support beams they were in the twin towers. Of course one of them was bound to survive the attack, yet Christians obviously took this one particular cross in the rubble as a symbol that God was still with them. Where was he when the attack was happening? What kind of an inept God watches all those people die, only to keep safe a support beam to show us he still cares?

I have no problem with historical monuments that comfort people and the fact is many people found solace in this cross beam (pun intended) after 9/11 (one wonders if an attack like 9/11 had occurred in a predominantly Muslim country, would survivors have found solace in crescent shaped cross beams ). But everyone should acknowledge that if we allow symbols such as this onto public space, we have to allow EVERY religion to post their own symbols. That is a floodgate that I do not think many Christians are ready open.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like James L.'s post
29-07-2014, 08:43 PM
RE: Cross monument at Ground Zero
I have to think that the cross is not a symbol of hope for a person soon to hang on one. That was always a puzzling concept to me about the church, especially growing up Catholic.

There are many things that could be done as a memorial that would better serve all people, not just those of the Christian persuasion. Perhaps a reflecting pool in a park...a peaceful place where people could pause a moment and pay their respects or just sit with their own thoughts without those thoughts being overshadowed by religion...particularly since it was religious belief that caused the loss of the towers and all those lives.

We really don't need religious symbols everywhere.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Anjele's post
29-07-2014, 09:00 PM
RE: Cross monument at Ground Zero
I dislike symbolism in general... Be it national, religious or otherwise.

Flags, icons, statues and coats of arms are all things that tend to make people act in stupid, irrational ways, both harmless and destructive.

The world would be a better place without them.

[img]

via GIPHY

[/img]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Sam's post
29-07-2014, 10:19 PM
RE: Cross monument at Ground Zero
I hate that cross. I hate it so much. It came up in conversation today (by coincidence) and I immediately put on a sarcastic smile and got all "Oh, how nice of God to sit there watching all those people die" with my voice raising cause I just cannot contain my hatred for the whole thing, I can't stand to watch logic take such a beating.

A tiny, tiny part of me says they have a point. It is technically an object with significance and therefore it does kind of have a place in a monument dedicated to the disaster. The problem is, of course, its sole significance is derived from people's reaction to it, and people's reaction is unendingly moronic. It just hurts to remember that so many people can be so stupid.

Besides, it's not like they actually take that comfort to meaningful degrees. They go through and operate the airport security measures just like everyone else. I don't think any of them's ever complained about having to do so because they have Jesus, the greatest security system ever.

And of course, you have that little hint of their nasty habit of only caring about themselves. "Hundreds of people just died horrifying deaths, millions worth of damage has been afflicted, life will likely never be quite the same again, and God will do jack to help with any of this, but he left me this very common shape to take comfort in, and that's all that matters!".

Rant over. In conclusion, I think they have a point but their point only exists because a lot of people are practically brain dead levels of stupid.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like CleverUsername's post
30-07-2014, 02:37 AM (This post was last modified: 30-07-2014 02:40 AM by TheLogicalAthiest.)
RE: Cross monument at Ground Zero
I think it should be removed because 9/11th was caused by religion.

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." - Henry David Thoreau
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-07-2014, 02:45 AM
RE: Cross monument at Ground Zero
Let it stand.

Add a small plaque saying:
"In commemoration of their god's failure
We will remember"

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 11 users Like DLJ's post
30-07-2014, 04:24 AM
RE: Cross monument at Ground Zero
(30-07-2014 02:37 AM)TheLogicalAthiest Wrote:  I think it should be removed because 9/11th was caused by religion.


I agree, the worst thing about it that makes it repulsive is that it was built using "wreckage" from the building.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-07-2014, 06:27 AM
Re: Cross monument at Ground Zero
That's how the courts work.

In God we trust... That doesn't mean anything to anyone, therefore not religious.

Indivisible, under God... There's no difference in meaning,not religious.

If you look up the court cases years ago that actually got to the courts to oppose these topics, that's constantly their pathetic reasoning.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-07-2014, 11:27 AM (This post was last modified: 30-07-2014 11:40 AM by Ace.)
RE: Cross monument at Ground Zero
(30-07-2014 02:45 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Let it stand.

Add a small plaque saying:
"In commemoration of their god's failure
We will remember"


In God we trust.......... To ruin everything
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Ace's post
30-07-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: Cross monument at Ground Zero
The persecution of these poor christians is shocking! Shocking
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes pablo's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: