Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
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17-04-2015, 04:49 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
Here's Bart Ehrman's blog about crucifixion.

http://ehrmanblog.org/why-romans-crucified-people/

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17-04-2015, 04:54 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
Quote:Caesar and Cicero don't mention the events more than obliquely, although they were both alive at the time; what we have of Livy barely mentions the affair, and Plutarch is almost as late as Appian. What else is there?

Sallustius Crispus, also alive at the time...doesn't mention it. Again, while that particular book of Livy's is gone and the Periochae we do have does not mention it, we do have the work of L. Annaeus Florus, supposedly based on Livy's writings which would have been extant at Florus' time.

Quote:Lucius Annaeus Florus, known as Florus, was a Roman historian that lived from c. 74 AD to c. 130 AD. He wrote a brief history of Rome based mainly upon the writings of Livy. Though it is sometimes redundant to the work of Livy, it is helpful in that it often gives historians an idea of what was contained in the lost portions of Livy's texts. His summary of Spartacus' War is as follows:

We may, however, support the dishonor of a war with slaves, for though they are, by their circumstances, subjected to all kinds of treatment, they are yet, as it were, a second class of men, and may be admitted to the enjoyment of liberty with ourselves. But the war raised by the efforts of Spartacus I know not what name to call, for the soldiers in it were slaves, and the commanders gladiators; the former being persons of the meanest condition, and the latter men of the worst character, and adding to the calamity of their profession by its contemptibleness. Spartacus, Crixus, and Oenomaus, breaking out of the fencing school of Lentulus, escaped from Capua, with not more than thirty of the same occupation, and, having called the slaves to their standard, and collected a force of more than ten thousand men, were not content with merely having escaped, but were eager to take vengeance on their masters. The first theatre for action that attracted them was Mount Vesuvius. Here, being besieged by Clodius Glaber, they slid down a passage in the hollow part of the mountain, by means of ropes made of vine-branches, and penetrated to the very bottom of it; when, issuing forth by an outlet apparently impracticable, they captured, by a sudden attack, the camp of the Roman general, who expected no molestation. They afterwards took other camps, and spread themselves to Cora, and through the whole of Campania. Not content with plundering the country seats and villages, they ravaged, with terrible devastation, Nola and Nuceria, Thurii and Metapontum. Being joined with new forces day after day and forming themselves into a regular army, they made themselves, out of osiers and beasts' hides, a rude kind of shields, and out of the iron from the slave-houses forged swords and other weapons. And that nothing proper might be wanting to the complement of the army, they procured cavalry by breaking in the herds of horses that came in their way, and conferred upon their leader the ensigns and fasces that they took from the praetors. Nor did he, who of a mercenary Thracian had become a Roman soldier, of a soldier a deserter and robber, and afterwards, from consideration of his strength, a gladiator, refuse to receive them. He afterwards, indeed, celebrated the funerals of his own officers, who died in battle, with the obsequies of Roman generals, and obliged the prisoners to fight with arms at their funeral piles, just as if he could atone for all past dishonors by becoming, from a gladiator, an exhibitor of shows of gladiators. Engaging next with the armies of the consuls, he cut to pieces that of Lentulus, near the Apennines, and destroyed the camp of Caius Cassius at Mutina. Elated by which success, he deliberated (which is sufficient disgrace for us) about assailing the city of Rome. At length an effort was made against this swordsman with the whole force of the empire, and Licinius Crassus avenged the honor of Rome, by whom the enemies (I am ashamed to call them so) being routed and put to flight, betook themselves to the furthest parts of Italy. Here, being shut up in a corner in Bruttium, and attempting to escape into Sicily, but having no ships, and having in vain tried, on the swift current of the strait, to sail on rafts made of hurdles and casks tied together with twigs, they at last sallied forth, and died a death worthy of men. As was fitting under a gladiator captain, they fought without sparing themselves. Spartacus himself, fighting with the utmost bravery in the front of the battle, fell as became their general.

While there may have been other works (Paterculus' history of the period is missing the part prior to 43 BC and Asinius Pollio's history - which was a major source for both Appian and Plutarch - is lost in total. So there is no way we can know what we don't have. At this point we must assume that neither Cicero, Caesar, Sallustius, or Livy made any such claim of the crucifixion of the captives. Livy places the battle in Bruttium. Plutarch hints at Lucania...which adjoins Bruttium. Appian is even less precise. Who knows?

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17-04-2015, 04:58 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
(17-04-2015 04:49 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Here's Bart Ehrman's blog about crucifixion.

http://ehrmanblog.org/why-romans-crucified-people/

Gotta love Ehrman's writing....even if there is no evidence that jesus was crucified at all....regardless of xtian bullshit which is present by the metric fuckton.

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17-04-2015, 05:07 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
(17-04-2015 07:33 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Or is this god person just a crappy engineer who prefers form over function???

His engineers are pretty damn clever. In a Columbian Necktie kinda way.

#sigh
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17-04-2015, 06:00 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
Actually, some people are voluntarily crucified at Easter as a devotional practice. Here Easter is all about rabbits and eggs, but in the Philippines i imagine that it must be a grisly sight.

[Image: article-2607322-1D2C6BE300000578-152_964x648.jpg]
(Yes, those nails are real.)

[Image: REU-PHILIPPINES-CRUCIFIXION.jpg]

[Image: philippine_crucifixion.jpg]

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17-04-2015, 07:58 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
(17-04-2015 02:03 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  ...
It's a long way from Bruttium to Capua and thence to Rome.

As the old song goes...

It's a long way to Herculaneum,
It's a long way to go.
It's a long way to Herculaneum,
To the sweetest girl I know!
Goodbye, Colosseum,
Farewell, Appian Way!
It's a long long way to Herculaneum,
But my heart's right there.

Or at least, that's how I remember it 'cause I couldn't find it on the google machine.

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17-04-2015, 09:18 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
(17-04-2015 07:58 PM)DLJ Wrote:  As the old song goes...

It's a long way to Herculaneum,
It's a long way to go.
It's a long way to Herculaneum,
To the sweetest girl I know!
Goodbye, Colosseum,
Farewell, Appian Way!
It's a long long way to Herculaneum,
But my heart's right there.

Or at least, that's how I remember it 'cause I couldn't find it on the google machine.




(30-03-2015 08:47 PM)Colourcraze Wrote:  IT'S THE HOLY GHOST oooOOOOOOOOOOooooooo
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17-04-2015, 11:14 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
Quote:It's a long way to Herculaneum

In Italian it is "Ercolano." Actually works better in the song.

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19-04-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
I can't really say for sure what shape it would had been. I know there are several variants like stated before, but what I do know is that more than anything, they were not designed to torture or kill per se, they were more meant to be a status symbol of fear. A symbol to let all others look at that person and learn and find an example in looking at them to see what would happen if they did the same crimes.

Now, Brazen Bull! THAT was a torture / execution device. With the cross, you were more likely to dehydrate to death before dying of anything else.


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19-04-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: Crucifixion from an engineering standpoint
(17-04-2015 06:00 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  Actually, some people are voluntarily crucified at Easter as a devotional practice. Here Easter is all about rabbits and eggs, but in the Philippines i imagine that it must be a grisly sight.

[Image: article-2607322-1D2C6BE300000578-152_964x648.jpg]
(Yes, those nails are real.)

[Image: REU-PHILIPPINES-CRUCIFIXION.jpg]

[Image: philippine_crucifixion.jpg]

Just as they needed to be historically, each person needs to be tied to the cross bar. A nail through the center of the palm can not hold the entire body weight; it will simply tear through the soft tissue. In fact, typically the hands would only be nailed in order to keep the individual from untying themselves. Generally, it took a couple days or more for the poor bastard to finally die from asphyxiation. Apparently, it's difficult to breath when being suspended by one's arms, so they would need to "stand" on the heel nails to lift their torso to inhale.

(I laugh quietly to myself when I see people proudly wearing their historically-inaccurate iconography.)
[Image: 14836924385_1.jpg]

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcmPL4codsbtiJhpFav3r...-w_49ttW6a]
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