Crying over the heat death of the universe
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04-01-2017, 08:05 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2017 08:12 PM by arethosemyfeet?.)
RE: Crying over the heat death of the universe
Julep - thank you for your kinds words. They are appreciated and I will try to take your suggestions on board.

(04-01-2017 07:20 PM)Fireball Wrote:  Voltaire had it right, with "Candide". It's a quick read; give it a try.

Already read... There is some debate over its conclusions. I'm afraid it did not help me.

(04-01-2017 07:18 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Using the "heat death" of the universe, which is only speculation...]

There is a growing scientific concensus behind it.

Quote:...and which you will never see...

You feel the need to point this out?

Quote:...is some sort of displacement or substitution mechanism for being disappointed / depressed about your own life.

Have I not adequately explained that there are *many* issues in my life which contribute to my depression? I came to an atheist forum for the one that most directly relates to my atheism. I have explained some of the eighty thousand other things elsewhere.

Quote:What's wrong is not the universe. This is bizarre.

Bizarre to you and yet existential angst is not uncommon. A sense of wrongness is not uncommon, as part of that angst and as part of other things.

Quote:It's YOU. You need to figure out what went off the rails, when and why, and turn it around, (that is if you even *want* to do that, and it doesn't actually sound like you really want to.)

I can't remember a time when I didn't feel unusually, disproportionately anxious and unhappy. What do you think I might have done as an unsatisfactory three year old to cause this? I have spent tens of thousands of hours trying to work out the what and the when and the why, and further hundreds of hours dealing with mental health and therapeutic services trying to get better. It's exhausting. Why bother if I don't want to?

And why on earth would I post here if I didn't want to get better? I already know this doesn't make sense to many people. Why would I risk subjecting myself to rejection and ridicule?
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04-01-2017, 08:14 PM
RE: Crying over the heat death of the universe
(04-01-2017 08:05 PM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  There is a growing scientific consensus behind it.

Prove it.

Quote:You feel the need to point this out?

Yes I did. You are obsessed with something that is totally irrelevant. Clearly you are USING this as you want need to find something to bitch about.

Quote:...is some sort of displacement or substitution mechanism for being disappointed / depressed about your own life.

Have I not adequately explained that there are *many* issues in my life which contribute to my depression? I came to an atheist forum for the one that most directly relates to my atheism. I have explained some of the eighty thousand other things elsewhere.

Eighty thousand ? Oh you POOR thing.
You need to look up "attention whore", as clearly that's what you are. Anyone who has to make the unbelievable STRETCH to being depressed about the possible heat death of the universe has used up their quota of 79,999 other things to whine about.
Un-fucking-believable.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-01-2017, 08:28 PM
RE: Crying over the heat death of the universe
(04-01-2017 08:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:05 PM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  There is a growing scientific consensus behind it.

Prove it.

Quote:You feel the need to point this out?

Yes I did. You are obsessed with something that is totally irrelevant. Clearly you are USING this as you want need to find something to bitch about.

Quote:...is some sort of displacement or substitution mechanism for being disappointed / depressed about your own life.

Have I not adequately explained that there are *many* issues in my life which contribute to my depression? I came to an atheist forum for the one that most directly relates to my atheism. I have explained some of the eighty thousand other things elsewhere.

Eighty thousand ? Oh you POOR thing.
You need to look up "attention whore", as clearly that's what you are. Anyone who has to make the unbelievable STRETCH to being depressed about the possible heat death of the universe has used up their quota of 79,999 other things to whine about.
Un-fucking-believable.

You know nothing about me. I don't talk about this in real life because I can't. I haven't posted on a forum since 2013. I only did so now because I was spiralling and in despair. You are the kind of person that every depressive fears to find, because you reinforce the voice that says you aren't allowed to feel bad, that you're making it all up and you aren't worth sympathy. Do you hang around cliffs so you can push people off?

"This section is a little different to the rest of the forum. Being provocative or insensitive in this section is prohibited. If people are talking about their personal issues and looking for support then they deserve that bit more protection than our other sections provide."

Fuck you.
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04-01-2017, 08:53 PM
RE: Crying over the heat death of the universe
(04-01-2017 12:36 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 06:14 PM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  ...
I find positive emotions to be rare, fragile, capricious and perverse. This thread suggests that other people manage them better or at least expect to be able to. So I need more context or development in this area to be able to apply people's advice. I don't know whether I should be approaching the problem psychologically or philosophically...

How about systematically?

(03-01-2017 06:14 PM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  ...
It seems a bit much to ask for a precise and detailed outline of your guide to life (with diagrams and FAQs).

I got diagrams.

Start with this one:

[Image: event-management_535278.jpg]

See the "Auto Response"? That's your tears, that is.

Wink

There's going with the flow ... and then there's flowing with the go.
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04-01-2017, 11:13 PM
RE: Crying over the heat death of the universe
(04-01-2017 05:50 PM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 12:36 PM)DLJ Wrote:  See the "Auto Response"? That's your tears, that is.

I mentioned the tears because I hardly ever cry. When I do, I don't really know why. I don't know why some things prompt it, and other maybe worse things don't.
...

It's to do with empathy, proximity, balance and tolerance thresholds.

Take another look at the diagram and start thinking about your own auto-responses to different categories of stimuli (including e.g. Bucky's inappropriate words). Then consider the intervention techniques you might be subconsciously adopting or avoiding... ask yourself why.

And that's the best I can offer before we have to start talking about consulting rates.

Wink

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05-01-2017, 01:17 AM
RE: Crying over the heat death of the universe
(02-01-2017 02:42 PM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  Hello... I joined here years ago but then never really did much with my membership. The intervening time has been full, though not with anything of consequence.

So. How to explain? Depressed since childhood - at least since the age of 11, probably before. Atheist since age 14 or so. I don't think atheism has made me depressed but it colours my depression.

Twenty years ago, at the age of 18, at almost exactly this time of year and in the midst of my first serious breakdown, I read A Brief History of Time. Despite being already aware of some of the concepts in it, it crystallised fears about the end of the world and the end of the universe and threw me into a state of - what? Suicidal existential angst? Which is almost impossible to talk about to most people, because the fate of the universe is too vast and distant a prospect to be thought relevant.

Two decades on, and I feel I have yet to acquire any useful perspective on this. I have read smug theists talking about the hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance inherent in the atheist worldview, saying that if any truly followed their beliefs to their logical conclusion, they would be paralysed with despair at the futility of life. Although it's not a constant state, I feel that I *am* this fictional atheist, and also feel that I'm letting the godless community and all happy and fulfilled atheists down.

All the causes I care about relate to conservation, preservation, restoration and protection. All are ultimately hopeless in terms of eventual prospects for this planet, the species and the cosmos. I have never really enjoyed life, even as quite a young child, which makes it hard to create any personal meaning without a concept of legacy. Believing that this life is all you have, and that you are fucking it up badly is pretty much the worst of all worlds.

People ask why worry about things you can't change? Because I can't change them, obviously. (I also worry about things I can change, but in a different way, yay.) I can deal with my own death but I have no idea how to deal with the deaths of all living beings, the destruction of all beauty and the death of all knowledge in the universe. It's hard, sometimes, not to see death or destruction in all things. And how can you form relationships with things that are already lost?

I don't want my childhood Christianity back. I think that this is the way that life is. I just don't know how to cope with it. I have had decades of medication and years of therapy, and I am still sitting here literally crying at the thought of everything ending in the void. Why is this so hard and why am I so stupid?

Well, exactly how do you know that is the definitive fate of the universe? Heat death is but one proposal; in truth, no one really knows what will happen for sure. You're dealing with things far beyond humanity's comprehension or ability to articulate. Maybe everything will end in a dark and cold void. Then again the universe may just be infinite in size and scope; we just don't really know for sure.

On the bright side, you exist. Hooray! Out of all the possible combinations for all possible humans, you came into being. And that is a good thing. Sure, like all of us you will have to eat the shit sandwich known as death and cease to exist at some point, but you still have an amazing life to live. So don't be depressed about stuff that you can't control; the universe and life is more wonderous and great than you are willing to admit or enjoy. So get up tomorrow, go for a mile run or whatever exercise you want to do. Call up an old friend and do breakfast! Take up surfing! Or mountain biking! Or karate! Or watercolor! Or whatever else your heart desires. Don't worry about the universe; the universe will take care of itself just fine! Make your own life within it extraordinary!

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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05-01-2017, 01:32 AM
RE: Crying over the heat death of the universe
Um. Bro, we aren't mental health experts, we're just random dickheads. You won't find your answer here, because what ails you isn't a single question, it's your depression. If I could find you some satisfactory answer for your heat death question, which put it beyond doubt in your mind, you'd still be depressed over a whole bunch of other things. As much as it may be resistant to treatment, a professional is what you need.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-01-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: Crying over the heat death of the universe
(02-01-2017 02:42 PM)arethosemyfeet? Wrote:  Hello... I joined here years ago but then never really did much with my membership. The intervening time has been full, though not with anything of consequence.

So. How to explain? Depressed since childhood - at least since the age of 11, probably before. Atheist since age 14 or so. I don't think atheism has made me depressed but it colours my depression.

Twenty years ago, at the age of 18, at almost exactly this time of year and in the midst of my first serious breakdown, I read A Brief History of Time. Despite being already aware of some of the concepts in it, it crystallised fears about the end of the world and the end of the universe and threw me into a state of - what? Suicidal existential angst? Which is almost impossible to talk about to most people, because the fate of the universe is too vast and distant a prospect to be thought relevant.

Two decades on, and I feel I have yet to acquire any useful perspective on this. I have read smug theists talking about the hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance inherent in the atheist worldview, saying that if any truly followed their beliefs to their logical conclusion, they would be paralysed with despair at the futility of life. Although it's not a constant state, I feel that I *am* this fictional atheist, and also feel that I'm letting the godless community and all happy and fulfilled atheists down.

All the causes I care about relate to conservation, preservation, restoration and protection. All are ultimately hopeless in terms of eventual prospects for this planet, the species and the cosmos. I have never really enjoyed life, even as quite a young child, which makes it hard to create any personal meaning without a concept of legacy. Believing that this life is all you have, and that you are fucking it up badly is pretty much the worst of all worlds.

People ask why worry about things you can't change? Because I can't change them, obviously. (I also worry about things I can change, but in a different way, yay.) I can deal with my own death but I have no idea how to deal with the deaths of all living beings, the destruction of all beauty and the death of all knowledge in the universe. It's hard, sometimes, not to see death or destruction in all things. And how can you form relationships with things that are already lost?

I don't want my childhood Christianity back. I think that this is the way that life is. I just don't know how to cope with it. I have had decades of medication and years of therapy, and I am still sitting here literally crying at the thought of everything ending in the void. Why is this so hard and why am I so stupid?

I'm sorry, I haven't read the many other replies to your post. I just wanted to tell you that I've also struggled with severe depression since the age of 11 (coincidentally). And I have the exact same problem as you. However, for me it's not the end of the Universe (assuming it'll end), but global warming, that sets off my panic attacks and bouts of intense crying. In bad periods I have to avoid news because I can't handle it. So I know what it's like!
I've never connected these anxiety attacks with the lack of Heaven though. For some reason. I was a Christian untill the age 20-ish (gradual process of leaving religion), so it would've been logical for me to have these same thoughts.
For different people with depression and anxiety, different things triggers panic attacks. The triggers are not rational. Your brain would come up with something else to trigger the attacks, or possibly even exactly the same (the end of the universe, even if you believe people go to Heaven or Hell).

Keep seeking treatment for your disease. It took 18 years in my case, but I finally got release from it by getting Electro Convulsive Therapy (electroshock, but don't worry, these days it's done with general anesthetic and muscle relaxants, so there's no torture!) and a combination of powerful drugs. I am still not completely cured, but it's much, much better and I'm thriving.
In other words, depression is treatable. It is possible to get better. Sometimes it takes some serious intervention, but it's worth it! It just requires a psychiatrist who isn't willing to give up before the right combination of treatments are found, and it requires you to stick with the treatment and not give up.
There's light at the end of the tunnel!

"I believe that while not all people are essentially good, most are trying" - Adam Savage
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