Cyanobacteria, our little hero
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02-03-2014, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2014 05:18 PM by Godexists.)
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 01:23 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  This is why I am not going to be drawn into repeating anything on this thread.

I have not asked you to repeat something but answer to my points raised at post no.77. Nobody has still given a answer.

Quote:All a troll has to do

Oh, nice, so you are lowering the level now also down to name calling ??

alright..... Bowing

Quote: is keep repeating the questions or making the same flawed points and ignoring all the responses that cannot easily be refuted.

How is it, that i feel this is exactly the case with my questions ?

I have another one for you :

If there was a reduced atmosphere without oxygen some time back in the past ( which btw. there is no scientific evidence for, rather the oposit is the case ) then there would be no ozone layer, and if there was no ozone layer the ultraviolet radiation would penetrate the atmosphere and would destroy the amino acids as soon as they were formed. If the Cyanobacterias however would overcome that problem ( its supposed the bacterias in the early earth lived in the water, but that would draw other unsurmountable problems ), and evolve photosynthesis, they would have to evolve at the same time protective enzymes that prevented them oxygen to damage theyr DNA through hydroxyl radicals. So what evolutionary advantage would there be they to do this ? There are so many problems stick with the hypothesis of a earth history throug evolution, i don't know even where to begin with...... Not only are the ideas of how the earth formed ridiculous ( clouds of gases, which eventually would come together and form solid particles, or "cosmic dust". This cosmic dust would eventually be drawn together by the force of gravity to form large solid bodies called planets ) but also the origin of life is completely out of any feasable possibility throuth natural means.
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02-03-2014, 05:22 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2014 05:31 PM by rampant.a.i..)
Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 05:28 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  I've just been finding out about cyanobacteria and found this tutorial on youtube.





What I found particularly interesting was at 5:11 where it describes photosynthesis as an equation. 6 molecules of water plus 6 molecules of carbon dioxide plus light from the sun, produces one molecule of sugar and 6 molecules of Oxygen.

Simply put, the first cyanobacteria mutated from prokaryotic bacteria. It started photosynthesising due to a mutation and in doing so locking energy from the sun as sugar with O2 as the waste product.

I don't see anything unexpected with this at all. Prokaryotic bacteria was the dominant life on earth for a billion years. The number of bacteria that existed in those billion years would have been several orders of magnitude greater. Would it make any difference if it had taken two billion years instead? Or three?

Ironically the OP has inadvertently drawn my attention to the perfect example that I was looking for with regards to a computer model that I am currently working on. I'm still reading up on this so excuse any slip up I make but from what I think I've understood so far:

Why should this mutation that locked energy from the sun into a sugar have proven successful? As the universe has expanded since the big bang, thermodynamic gradients have developed and entropy has increased.

We know that complex spacetime structures develop minimising their entropy locally at the expense of maximising entropy globally. In doing so they make the thermodynamic gradients more shallow.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be converted into different forms. Each time it is converted there is some waste, some entropy.

The more shallow the gradient the more that global entropy is maximised. This is because you need more efficient conversions to work with smaller amounts of available free-energy in order to produce more entropy as the thermodynamic gradient becomes shallower.

Locking up the energy from the sunlight into a sugar is an example of this. Photons from the sun hit the earth and produced heat. The thermodynamic gradient between the hot Earth and the cold of space was still quite steep. This steep gradient allowed work to be done. Converting the energy from the sun into chemical energy allows the thermodynamic gradient to be put to work before it is reflected away from the Earth thereby making the gradient more shallow and with entropy being increased as a result. This is why the air is cooler above a rain forest for example, rain forests are known for efficiently recycling resources and energy. The rain forest makes the thermodynamic gradient between the sun and the reflection of energy back into space more shallow.

Of course the newly mutated cyanobacteria is not concerned about this, it's just part of a process in the same way that shaking soil in a riddle will filter out the stones.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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02-03-2014, 05:39 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2014 05:48 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 05:14 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Oh, nice, so you are lowering the level now also down to name calling ??

*As if* YOU had not done exactly the same thing. Your memory seems somewhat deficient.

(02-03-2014 05:14 PM)Godexists Wrote:  If there was a reduced atmosphere without oxygen some time back in the past ( which btw. there is no scientific evidence for, rather the oposit is the case ) then there would be no ozone layer, and if there was no ozone layer the ultraviolet radiation would penetrate the atmosphere and would destroy the amino acids as soon as they were formed. If the Cyanobacterias however would overcome that problem ( its supposed the bacterias in the early earth lived in the water, but that would draw other unsurmountable problems ), and evolve photosynthesis, they would have to evolve at the same time protective enzymes that prevented them oxygen to damage theyr DNA through hydroxyl radicals. So what evolutionary advantage would there be they to do this ? There are so many problems stick with the hypothesis of a earth history throug evolution, i don't know even where to begin with...... Not only are the ideas of how the earth formed ridiculous ( clouds of gases, which eventually would come together and form solid particles, or "cosmic dust". This cosmic dust would eventually be drawn together by the force of gravity to form large solid bodies called planets ) but also the origin of life is completely out of any feasable possibility throuth natural means.

How about go get a REAL education, instead of copy/pasting from the internet, and Christian / Creation sites, and find out for yourself. No matter what the answer is you find turns out to be, little boy, it doesn't lead to your gap-god. Your problem with all your questions is : you HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE of the subject at hand, yet you think you can teach about it.

You seem to have a problem learning something. How many times do you have to be told the plural form of bacterium ?
I mean seriously ? You actually think we are so dumb, single-mindedly obsessive, and nuts, that it could actually all boil down to an argument about primordial Biochemistry ?
Get real. There are MUCH more important problems with the gods, (which you obviously can't even begin to address).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-03-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 03:13 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(02-03-2014 02:03 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Show that you are. Answer my post no.77 . Or you can't ? Consider

Post 63.

Simply put, the first cyanobacteria mutated from prokaryotic bacteria ?

are you serious ? Confused
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02-03-2014, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2014 06:38 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 06:10 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(02-03-2014 03:13 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Post 63.

Simply put, the first cyanobacteria mutated from prokaryotic bacteria ?

are you serious ? Confused

That's IS the accepted theory in Evolutionary Biology. If you can prove/demonstrate it didn't happen that way, (other than saying "oh it needed one of the gods"), write a paper and submit it for peer review. Good luck with that.

You're acting more and more desperate. I think there is a psych ward for plagiarizing internet trolls.
The nurses are nice there. They'll give you your pills, and you can do your pretend Biochemistry all by yourself, all day.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-03-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 06:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-03-2014 06:10 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Simply put, the first cyanobacteria mutated from prokaryotic bacteria ?

are you serious ? Confused

That's IS the accepted theory in Evolutionary Biology. If you can prove/demonstrate it didn't happen that way, (other than saying "oh it needed one of the gods"), write a paper and submit it for peer review. Good luck with that.

You're acting more and more desperate. I think there is a psych ward for plagiarizing internet trolls.
The nurses are nice there. They'll give you your pills, and you can do your pretend Biochemistry all by yourself, all day.

(Pasadena when I'm at school).

that explains it. A teenager that is in its puberty , having a need to rant to enhance its self esteem.......

Big Grin
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02-03-2014, 07:14 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 07:04 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(02-03-2014 06:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's IS the accepted theory in Evolutionary Biology. If you can prove/demonstrate it didn't happen that way, (other than saying "oh it needed one of the gods"), write a paper and submit it for peer review. Good luck with that.

You're acting more and more desperate. I think there is a psych ward for plagiarizing internet trolls.
The nurses are nice there. They'll give you your pills, and you can do your pretend Biochemistry all by yourself, all day.

(Pasadena when I'm at school).

that explains it. A teenager that is in its puberty , having a need to rant to enhance its self esteem.......

Big Grin

There are good mental heath units in Pasadena. I could refer you.
So... no paper for peer review ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-03-2014, 07:26 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 06:10 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(02-03-2014 03:13 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Post 63.

Simply put, the first cyanobacteria mutated from prokaryotic bacteria ?

are you serious ? Confused

Yes. That's what the video I posted said.

Were you there billions of years ago comparing that very first cyanobacteria with prokaryotic bacteria of the same period?

The fundamental flaw with irreducible complexity is that it ignores the fact that parts of a system may have become inter-dependent over time. There is no reason to suggest that they had to all change at the same time.

We see this happening the whole time with economies. You lower interest rates for example and eventually people become dependent upon those interest rates being low and you have trouble raising them again because other parts of the economy starts to rely on low interest rates. With complex adaptive systems, you change one part of the system and the other parts will adapt. The same applies to ecosystems and brains etc.
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02-03-2014, 07:40 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 04:05 AM)Godexists Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 11:40 PM)toadaly Wrote:  No it doesn't. "Species" is an idea we've invented for the purpose of categorization. It doesn't bound nature, it's an attempt to describe it in simplified terms.

Ok. We can substitute " species " with philogeny . Sleepy

How does that negate that all evolution is micro-evolution? It's doesn't matter what labels you use.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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02-03-2014, 08:00 PM
Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(02-03-2014 07:04 PM)Godexists Wrote:  (Pasadena when I'm at school).

that explains it. A teenager that is in its puberty , having a need to rant to enhance its self esteem.......

Big Grin

You must have a translator editing papers. I can't imagine anyone passing a class at Pasadena City College with this kind of confusion over spelling, grammar and tense changes.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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