Cyanobacteria, our little hero
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01-03-2014, 02:57 PM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2014 03:20 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 12:34 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 11:47 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. That sentence proves you have no clue what the Theory of Evolution is all about.

So that seems now to be a new argument of atheists : when someone disagrees with the theory, its because the theory is not understood.

Welldone.

Bad for you, i understand the theory very well, and i know also, why its pseudo science, fairy tale stories for non thinking atheists :

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1523-is...of-novelty

In other experiments led by Gauger and biologist Ralph Seelke of the University of Wisconsin, Superior, their research team broke a gene in the bacterium E. coli required for synthesizing the amino acid tryptophan. When the bacteria's genome was broken in just one place, random mutations were capable of "fixing" the gene. But even when only two mutations were required to restore function, Darwinian evolution got stuck, apparently unable to restore full function.16 This is because it was more advantageous to delete a gene with low functionality or none than it was to continue to express it. This suggests that it is highly unlikely that the standard gene duplication model would produce new complex functions because gene duplicates are likely to be deleted before evolving some new function.

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1490-gene-duplication

This is the mother of all ad-hoc explanations:

Phylogenetic patterns of emergence of new genes support a model of frequent de novo evolution - 21 February 2013
CONCLUSIONS:
We suggest that the overall trends of gene emergence are more compatible with a de novo evolution model for orphan genes than a general duplication-divergence model. Hence de novo evolution of genes appears to have occurred continuously throughout evolutionary time and should therefore be considered as a general mechanism for the emergence of new gene functions.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/14/117/abstract

Yup, Orphan genes (comprising 10 to 30% of every new genome sequenced, including humans) can now just ‘poof’ into existence. That whole evolutionary model of functional sequences being selected for in small increments is no good anymore. Need a new gene? Just call on ‘de novo evolution’ to do your dirty work.

Now, do the right thing : stick your theory where it belongs to.

You forgot to read the REST of the damn study, you fool.

"We have also revisited the possibility that de novo evolution of genes could occur even within existing genes, by making use of an alternative reading frame (overprinting). We find several cases among the annotated Ensembl ORFs, where the new reading frame has emerged at a higher phylostratigraphic level than the original one. We discuss some of these overprinted genes, which include also the Hoxa9 gene where an alternative reading frame covering the homeobox has emerged within the lineage leading to rodents and primates (Euarchontoglires).

It's very clear, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-03-2014, 03:01 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 02:45 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Photosynthesis was likely for their own survival, or as a random mutation. For a self-professed "expert," you seem confused by basic evolutionary biology.

"Evolution of bacteria
Bacteria have existed from very early in the history of life on Earth.
Bacteria fossils discovered in rocks date from at least the Devonian Period (416 to 359.2 million years ago), and there are convincing arguments that bacteria have been present since early Precambrian time, about 3.5 billion years ago.
Bacteria were widespread on Earth at least since the middle of the Proterozoic Eon, about 1.5 billion years ago, when oxygen appeared in the atmosphere as a result of the action of the cyanobacteria. Bacteria have thus had plenty of time to adapt to their environments and to have given rise to numerous descendant forms."

Your claim that bacteria are slow-adapting is also a laughable mistake to anyone with a cursory understanding of biology:

"Many examples of the rapid evolution of bacteria are available. Before the 1940s, antibiotics were not used in medical practice. When antibiotics did eventually come into use, the majority of pathogenic bacteria were sensitive to them. Since then, however, the bacterial resistance to one or more antibiotics has increased to the point that previously effective antibiotics are no longer useful against certain types of bacteria."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...f-bacteria

Would you care to address any of the above, or would you prefer to continue throwing out red herrings?

You have not answered my question : what selection pressure your think was there for bacterias to evolve the hability of fotosynthesis, and nitrogenase.
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01-03-2014, 03:08 PM
Cyanobacteria, our little hero
I'm not sure where you're copy-pasting "hability of fotosynthesis" from, but you'd have to provide an accurate model of the early atmosphere for a more specific answer than "for survival or as a random genetic mutation".

Are you able to respond to any of the other points raised, or are you content demonstrating you don't know what the evolutionary benefits of photosynthesis could be?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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01-03-2014, 03:18 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 03:01 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 02:45 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Photosynthesis was likely for their own survival, or as a random mutation. For a self-professed "expert," you seem confused by basic evolutionary biology.

"Evolution of bacteria
Bacteria have existed from very early in the history of life on Earth.
Bacteria fossils discovered in rocks date from at least the Devonian Period (416 to 359.2 million years ago), and there are convincing arguments that bacteria have been present since early Precambrian time, about 3.5 billion years ago.
Bacteria were widespread on Earth at least since the middle of the Proterozoic Eon, about 1.5 billion years ago, when oxygen appeared in the atmosphere as a result of the action of the cyanobacteria. Bacteria have thus had plenty of time to adapt to their environments and to have given rise to numerous descendant forms."

Your claim that bacteria are slow-adapting is also a laughable mistake to anyone with a cursory understanding of biology:

"Many examples of the rapid evolution of bacteria are available. Before the 1940s, antibiotics were not used in medical practice. When antibiotics did eventually come into use, the majority of pathogenic bacteria were sensitive to them. Since then, however, the bacterial resistance to one or more antibiotics has increased to the point that previously effective antibiotics are no longer useful against certain types of bacteria."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...f-bacteria

Would you care to address any of the above, or would you prefer to continue throwing out red herrings?

You have not answered my question : what selection pressure your think was there for bacterias to evolve the hability of fotosynthesis, and nitrogenase.

The plural of bacterium, (a single organism), is "bacteria", not "bacterias".
There is no such word, as "bacterias".
Thanks for demonstrating again the general level of your education, and ignorance.
Thumbsup

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01-03-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 03:08 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Are you able to respond to any of the other points raised, or are you content demonstrating you don't know what the evolutionary benefits of photosynthesis could be?

Indeed, i don't know what selection pressure there should be for ancient bacterias, that were perfectly fine to live in a anaerobic envyronment, to evolve photosynthesis. You might explain ?
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01-03-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 03:19 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 03:08 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Are you able to respond to any of the other points raised, or are you content demonstrating you don't know what the evolutionary benefits of photosynthesis could be?

Indeed, i don't know what selection pressure there should be for ancient bacterias, that were perfectly fine to live in a anaerobic envyronment, to evolve photosynthesis. You might explain ?

Selective pressure applies to existing traits. It does not pertain to mutations.

You should probably read a book.

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01-03-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 03:19 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 03:08 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Are you able to respond to any of the other points raised, or are you content demonstrating you don't know what the evolutionary benefits of photosynthesis could be?

Indeed, i don't know what selection pressure there should be for ancient bacterias, that were perfectly fine to live in a anaerobic envyronment, to evolve photosynthesis. You might explain ?

I see you are no scientist. No scientist would spell "environment" as "envyronment".
You are hilarious. Please keep the jokes coming.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-03-2014, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2014 04:14 PM by Godexists.)
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 03:23 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Selective pressure applies to existing traits. It does not pertain to mutations.

So where did the ancient bacterias get these existing traits from ?

Quote:You should probably read a book.

what i should, or should not do, is my, not your business.

And just for clarification : english is not my native language.
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01-03-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 02:41 PM)Godexists Wrote:  feel free to address, what selection pressure your think was there for bacterias to evolve the hability of fotosynthesis, and nitrogenase.

Are we talking about abiogenesis then and how the first cells formed? Selection pressure only applies when Darwinian evolution takes off. Abiogenesis came before Darwinian evolution and therefore there was no selection pressure. Instead you need to describe the process in terms of thermodynamic gradients being made shallower by the formation of open spacetime structures that decrease their entropy locally at the expense of maximising entropy globally.
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01-03-2014, 04:04 PM
RE: Cyanobacteria, our little hero
(01-03-2014 03:58 PM)Godexists Wrote:  So where did the ancient bacterias get these existing traits get from ?

Traits arise through mutation.


(01-03-2014 03:58 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
Quote:You should probably read a book.

what i should, or should not do, is my, not your business.

And just for clarification : english is not my native language.

I was not making any critique of your spelling or grammar. I was making the point that you seem to be incredibly ignorant of any and all actual evolutionary theory.

It's very much my business. You decided to demonstrate your ignorance on this internet forum. All of us here are then completely entitled to respond to it. My response is that you should act to correct your ignorance before asking questions born of it.

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