D's laconic S.S.
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19-04-2013, 08:24 PM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(19-04-2013 08:17 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Cardinal Smurf: Excuse me, sir, do you have a minute?

Doc (reluctantly putting down his copy of Barchester Towers): Yes, what is it?

Cardinal Smurf: I'm troubled, sir. No one can tell me what the human soul is, how it differs from the spirit and where it resides in the human body. For such an important topic, over which wars have been fought and rivers of blood spilt, there seems to be very little information. Can you tell me what a soul is?

Doc: Well, I asked my pastor that once and he said to ask a Ms. A. Franklin. I'm not sure who that is.

Cardinal Smurf: Also, when I searched the scriptures for the abode of the human soul, I came across some references to human organs that don't make sense.

Doc: Oh?

Cardinal Smurf: Yes, the ancient Israelites seem to have had little or no conception of the true nature or function of some human organs. For example, Psalm 26:2 says, "Examine me, O Lord, and prove me; try my reins and my heart." Similar passages are found in Psalm 7:9 and Psalm 16:7. 'Reins' is the archaic word for kidneys and these passages seem to suggest that the kidneys were the seat of conscience.

Doc: Really? Take a step to your left, please. That's not what it says in my Bible.

Cardinal Smurf, obeying: That's because the NIV has changed 'reins' to 'mind' wherever it is found. Similarly, the bowels which are the seat of emotion in Genesis 43:30 and Song of Solomon 5:4 were bowdlerized by the NIV to the word 'heart'. Similar confusion reigns around the mention of other organs such as the liver in Lamentations 2:11. In NO case is an organ given its true nature or function. If the ancient Israelites were so muddled about such simple facts, how can we trust them when it comes to intangible concepts such as the soul?

Doc (stealthily reaching for the trapdoor button): Do tell. Pray continue. You fascinate me strangely.

Revenant sees Doc reaching for his trapdoor.

"You know that doesn't work anymore. Not after the incident with Egor, ya know the one the court order says you can't publicly comment on."

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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19-04-2013, 08:25 PM
DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
Man I know some cool stuff! I never knew!
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19-04-2013, 08:30 PM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(19-04-2013 08:43 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(19-04-2013 08:28 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  And isn't the blood constantly being disposed of and replenished?

Cardinal Smurf,
You are correct. The Bible should have said that the nephesh is in the bone marrow. That would have made more physiologic sense, since all blood components are so transitory. Of course, the bone marrow is also being constantly turned over, so maybe that's not the answer, either.

Where, then, can the soul be? Obviously, an intact body is not required, since an amputee has a soul according to the Christians. The heart? What about those with artifical hearts or heart transplants? Or what happens during cardiac bypass, when the heart is temporarily stopped?

Any thoughts? Would any theists like to comment? I don't bite.

Doc

I say they're both found at the Taint. My reasoning is that more people have screamed "Oh God" when touched there than anyplace else on the body. Just ask Momsurroundedbyboys...


...what is it with me tonight?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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19-04-2013, 08:36 PM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(19-04-2013 08:17 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Cardinal Smurf: Excuse me, sir, do you have a minute?

Doc (reluctantly putting down his copy of Barchester Towers): Yes, what is it?

Cardinal Smurf: I'm troubled, sir. No one can tell me what the human soul is, how it differs from the spirit and where it resides in the human body. For such an important topic, over which wars have been fought and rivers of blood spilt, there seems to be very little information. Can you tell me what a soul is?

Doc: Well, I asked my pastor that once and he said to ask a Ms. A. Franklin. I'm not sure who that is.

Cardinal Smurf: Also, when I searched the scriptures for the abode of the human soul, I came across some references to human organs that don't make sense.

Doc: Oh?

Cardinal Smurf: Yes, the ancient Israelites seem to have had little or no conception of the true nature or function of some human organs. For example, Psalm 26:2 says, "Examine me, O Lord, and prove me; try my reins and my heart." Similar passages are found in Psalm 7:9 and Psalm 16:7. 'Reins' is the archaic word for kidneys and these passages seem to suggest that the kidneys were the seat of conscience.

Doc: Really? Take a step to your left, please. That's not what it says in my Bible.

Cardinal Smurf, obeying: That's because the NIV has changed 'reins' to 'mind' wherever it is found. Similarly, the bowels which are the seat of emotion in Genesis 43:30 and Song of Solomon 5:4 were bowdlerized by the NIV to the word 'heart'. Similar confusion reigns around the mention of other organs such as the liver in Lamentations 2:11. In NO case is an organ given its true nature or function. If the ancient Israelites were so muddled about such simple facts, how can we trust them when it comes to intangible concepts such as the soul?

Doc (stealthily reaching for the trapdoor button): Do tell. Pray continue. You fascinate me strangely.

Seriously now Doc, where can I find a Bible that has the unchanged verbage? What a treasure trove that would be!

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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19-04-2013, 09:55 PM
DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
Actually, I suspect The Vatican has all the world's souls locked in its vaults somewhere.
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19-04-2013, 10:37 PM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
I know where the soul is and I do not need no stinking bible. 2120 South Michigan Ave Chicago, The Apollo, Stax/Volt, Clarksdale MS, New Orleans even some parts of Hip Hop, soul is everywhere it is in the miasma, one need only open ones ears.

Now my definition is a lot better than any you are going to get studying the bible.

Sorry doc, but you are dealing with a delicate matter here and the bible is much better with a hammer or sword. Lets go find some bears to kill children and leave the soul alone. The soul gets sensitive.
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20-04-2013, 12:40 PM (This post was last modified: 20-04-2013 12:47 PM by docskeptic.)
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
Cardinal Smurf (dripping wet and in tattered clothes): You've got to get that loose floorboard fixed. And call an exterminator or something for those things in the basement. Now, where were we? Oh, yes. Even more troubling than the muddled references to organs is the complete absence of references to, perhaps the most important organ of all, the brain.

Doc: How do you mean? I know I've read portions in the Bible that refer to the word "mind".

Cardinal Smurf: But that's just it. The word translated as "mind" often refers to another organ, such as the heart. For example, Daniel 4:16 (speaking of King Nebuchadnezzar) says, "Let his mind (lit. heart) be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind (lit. heart) of an animal, till seven times pass by for him."

And Ezekiel 38:10 (speaking of Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal) says, "This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On that day thoughts will come into your mind (lit. heart) and you will devise an evil scheme."

Nowhere in the entire Bible does the word "brain" itself appear. How could the ancient Israelites have failed to connect the brain with the process of thinking or to consider it as the seat of emotion and personality?

Doc: Maybe the writers had no brains! (Laughing heartily at his own wit until he realizes what he has just said). Now, look here, young lad. Let's keep this little pleasantry between ourselves, shall we? I wouldn't want my little joke to be misconstrued as criticism of the inspired authors.
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21-04-2013, 09:14 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2013 09:36 AM by docskeptic.)
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
Doc (hoping for a better day): Class, let's resume the topic of how Jesus fulfilled prophecy to show he was the Messiah. Can anyone name a prophecy that was fulfilled in the time of Christ?

Impulse: The Slaughter of the Innocents predicted in Jer. 31: 15 and fulfilled in Matt. 2: 16-18!

Doc: Very good! Can anyone tell me what that was all about?

Impulse: When Herod found out that he had been tricked by the magi as to the exact location of the infant Jesus, he ordered the slaughter of all the boys two years and younger in and around Bethlehem. But there is no documentation of this act in Josephus, Tacitus or any other contemporary historian. The earliest extra-Biblical reference to the massacre is in the Protevangelium of James and that dates from the 2nd century CE. The famous quote by Augustus that it was better to be Herod's pig than Herod's son, when he heard about Herod's slaughter of the Innocents and his own son, was not reported by Macrobius till the 5th century CE.

Doc: What of that? The gospel records it, so it must have happened.

Impulse: Sir, I'm puzzled. The prophecy in Jeremiah seems to be talking about the Jewish dispersion and not the birth of the Messiah and Jeremiah mentions Ramah which is to the north of Jerusalem while Bethlehem is to the south. I'm also troubled. Innocent babies were killed while the infant Jesus was allowed to escape with his family to Egypt,

Doc: Oh, its not as bad as all that. Scholars estimate that given the population size of Bethlehem and its environs, only about 20 or so male infants were killed.

Impulse: Does God not value a single life? My point is that if God predicted the slaughter many hundred years before the event, why did he not warn the parents of the boys to escape like he warned Jesus's parents? Otherwise, what was the purpose of those boys' short lives? Did God create them solely to be slaughtered to fulfill a prophecy he had given Jeremiah several hundred years before?

Doc (left eye twitching ever so slightly): Uhhh... hey, how `bout them Celtics, eh? Anyone catch the game last night?
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21-04-2013, 09:03 PM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(19-04-2013 08:17 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Cardinal Smurf: Yes, the ancient Israelites seem to have had little or no conception of the true nature or function of some human organs.

I've gotten this impression many times, such as when the bible speaks of "knowing" something with one's "heart". Is it possible that they didn't know that the brain was the organ responsible for thoughts, emotion, and discernment? Maybe I'm wrong and they were just speaking of the heart metaphorically, but I rather think that our modern metaphors about the heart are derived from these ancient misunderstandings about what the heart actually does.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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22-04-2013, 04:15 AM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
Doc: What other Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus to show that he was the Messiah?

Impulse: Matthew 2:23! The verse is "... he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He shall be called a Nazarene". But, I cannot find the reference for it in the Old Testament.

Doc: Let me help (flipping through his Bible leisurely, then faster and finally frantically): It's not here! Perhaps in the Apocrypha? Or the Pseudo-Epigraphia?

Impulse: Nope. Not there. Already checked.

Doc: But it must be! This prophecy is necessary to justify Jesus coming from Nazareth. Nazareth was the Washington D.C. of ancient Israel, from which nothing good can come. How can his birth in Bethlehem be foretold in the Old Testament, but his derivation from Nazareth not be recorded?

Impulse: Perhaps Matthew made up the prophecy to make up for the fact that Nazareth, despite its importance in later years was not mentioned even once in the Old Testament. Since the Messiah was widely expected to come from Bethlehem and not Nazareth, Jesus's derivation from the latter city was an embarrassment to be explained. It is entirely possible that Jesus was even born in Nazareth with the Bethlehem birth narrative being a later invention.

Doc (covering his ears and humming "Sodom and Gomorrah" by the Village People very loudly): I'm not listening! I'm not listening!
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