DC Law To Reward Breeders
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12-10-2015, 05:58 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
Just because something is common - doesn't mean it's a good idea. Bear in mind -- Europeans are doing NOTHING to address overpopulation - except restrict immigration.

If you agree that overpopulation is a problem - then ANYTHING we can passively do is a good idea. We should NOT do ANYTHING that encourages people into procreating.

If we don't get a handle on the problem passively - at some point governments will be forced into active programs. Remember China???

And someday - when we get to 20 billion people or so (yes I pulled that figure out of the air) -- people will look back and say the 1 child policy was over generous.

Of course we can just look the other way- and say there's no problem.

I don't actually have a dog in the fight.

I don't have any kids who are going to inherit the problem.

.......................................

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12-10-2015, 05:59 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
Btw, lest you challenge my assertion on Europe: Paid Parental Leave: U.S. vs. the world

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12-10-2015, 06:01 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
(12-10-2015 05:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 03:27 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  WHY - when we have 8 BILLION people on the planet - are we rewarding people for HAVING MORE KIDS???

It's not really a "reward" in full context.

If you're going to look at kids as purely a transaction-based endeavor (and take out of the equation stuff like love), the benefit the parents get from this law plus any tax credits will be completely offset by the actual costs of having and raising a kid.

It's still a net loss financially, so I don't see how this can be considered a "reward". If this law passes, I'm not going out to reverse my vasectomy. I doubt many people will start deliberately having kids when they otherwise wouldn't have.

Many - won't. Some will.

That's enough to not do it.

I don't have a problem with maternity leave -- unpaid.

If you want kids - you should start off right -- by assuming full financial responsibility for them....

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12-10-2015, 06:05 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
(12-10-2015 05:58 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Just because something is common - doesn't mean it's a good idea. Bear in mind -- Europeans are doing NOTHING to address overpopulation - except restrict immigration.

If you agree that overpopulation is a problem - then ANYTHING we can passively do is a good idea. We should NOT do ANYTHING that encourages people into procreating.

If we don't get a handle on the problem passively - at some point governments will be forced into active programs. Remember China???

And someday - when we get to 20 billion people or so (yes I pulled that figure out of the air) -- people will look back and say the 1 child policy was over generous.

Of course we can just look the other way- and say there's no problem.

I don't actually have a dog in the fight.

I don't have any kids who are going to inherit the problem.

Ok, you've changed arguments here. You were not originally talking about over population. But, let's go with that.

First, I disagree that Europe is not doing anything to help with over population as they are having fewer children and are not sustaining a replacement population. If that is not doing something about the problem, then I don't know what doing something about the problem looks like.

Second, and more to the point, what does this have to do with over population? Your entire premise seems to be that this policy will encourage people to have more children. But, an overwhelming number of European countries offer this, and have for years, and they can't shoot out enough kids to maintain their current populations. So, it defy's logic that somehow this policy encourages more population given that, in one large sample, the complete opposite happened.

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12-10-2015, 06:16 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
(12-10-2015 05:22 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 04:00 AM)morondog Wrote:  They are not being offered money to have the kid. A kid costs a hell of a lot more than the piddling amount of money that is gonna be spent to allow the parents leave at the time of birth. You seem to think that people will pump out kids for the maternity benefits Rolleyes

They might NOT pop out a kid if they know they're going to have to go a few months without pay.

I'd be very happy to hear your ideas for population control.

I'd be happy to hear ANYONE's ideas for population control. Good ideas are hard to come by -- even more so when the ideas go against entrenched convention.

But - you're lying to yourself if you don't see the problem -- and some day, those kids are going to have to pay the price.

So you want people to be *punished* for having kids, by making sure that a. no leave at the time of having a kid b. financial penalty. This will ensure that the parents have to work without respite and the kid gets a shitty start in life. This is JUSTICE! Rolleyes

All because you think people won't be far-sighted enough to have thought about the implications of having a kid and will simply think "Sweet, days off! Let's fuck!"

It's a ridiculous argument.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-10-2015, 06:20 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
(12-10-2015 06:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If you want kids - you should start off right -- by assuming full financial responsibility for them....

So, this is your 3rd argument. First it was a reward for "breeders". Then it was irresponsible overpopulation. Now it's not being financially responsible.

Whic is it? What is the problem here?

As for you last point, I call bullshit. Paid leave does not mean you're not being financially responsible. And, to your point about the kids paying for it later, what the kids really pay for is when Mom is forced back to work days after pushing out a kid because she can't take time off to be with the baby.

I like you Biker, but this whole thread comes off as if you have some kind of irrational axe to grind.

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12-10-2015, 06:21 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
What's ridiculous?? You think that people having to actually taking financial responsibility for their decisions and actions is punishment.....

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12-10-2015, 06:28 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
Ey
(12-10-2015 03:35 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 07:02 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  While we're at it, we should take away veterans' benefits. We shouldn't be rewarding people for risking their lives for the glory of $2 car magnet manufacturers. Should we really be paying for the medical care and therapy for returning human shields just becaused they stepped on a landmine? Why should I pay for it? They should be pulling themselves up by the straps of their leg-knubs. Or, if overpopulation is really a concern, just take them out behind the chow hall and grind them into Salisbury steak for the new recruits. Waste not, be efficient.


Why should you pay for a service member's injuries?

Because they were incurred at your behest.

We (the country - via whatever derange leaders we elect) rose up an army and sent it off to do "our" will.

You pay for what you ask for.

I don't recall anyone asking anyone to have kids for us.

There's no shortage.


See the difference???

Consider

Yes, there is a difference. Those returning servicemen and women signed up of their own free will. They knew what they were getting into when they signed their asses away to uncle sam. However, our incoming cervixmen and women aren't being given a choice. They haven't asked to exist. A little help to those who need it isn't such a bad thing. If we really wanted to solve overpopulation, we could surgically 'fix' three out of five new births... but who decides who gets fixed and who doesn't? Do the parents decide? The doctors? The newborns? The Quakers? I don't know.

Some questions have no right answers. Solving overpopulation might just be one of those questions.

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12-10-2015, 06:43 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
(12-10-2015 06:21 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  What's ridiculous?? You think that people having to actually taking financial responsibility for their decisions and actions is punishment.....

Tell me, *how* do you conclude that getting leave at the birth of a kid is not taking financial responsibility? Is there some way that it translates that the parents are gonna somehow weasel out of paying for the kid's upbringing?

Rolleyes

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-10-2015, 07:03 AM
RE: DC Law To Reward Breeders
(12-10-2015 06:43 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 06:21 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  What's ridiculous?? You think that people having to actually taking financial responsibility for their decisions and actions is punishment.....

Tell me, *how* do you conclude that getting leave at the birth of a kid is not taking financial responsibility? Is there some way that it translates that the parents are gonna somehow weasel out of paying for the kid's upbringing?

Rolleyes

You've been here a long time, and you've picked up a bad habit, my friend....

Your saying that ---"So you want people to be *punished* for having kids," ---

sounds a whole lot like the "Why do you hate God" argument.

If no governmental money is promised to new parents -- how is that a punishment??

As in --- There's no God - how can he be hated????

It's not punishment if not promised.

It's punishment if promised, then withheld...

And note --- I DO favor (as I stated earlier) the time off for maternity leave. I just don't favor any financial funding for something that people should be willing and able to pay for themselves.

.......................................

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